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Author: Subject: Dickey's comments on using the Confederate flag

Extreme Peach





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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 11:14 AM
The Dickey interview with Dan may have been the most insightful and thoughtful interview he has ever given. Sure, a lot of stuff was missed due to time constraints and he was as magnanimous as one can be with respect to other members of the ABB, so no fireworks there. However, one of the most interesting tidbits of ABB history, I thought, were his comments on associating the band with the Rebel flag, and using the term 'Campaign' to describe their tours between '73-'74.
I first saw the band 7/71 and was hooked immediately. After Duane died I thought that was the end. I felt blessed that I had seen the original band and counted my blessings. Then all of the sudden the band emerges with 'Ramblin' Man' and the Brothers and Sisters lp is #1. Instantly everyone knew who the ABB were, and at that time Jamoie and Lamar Williams were in the band.
I wanted ABB t-shirts, poster, programs, any swag I could get my hands on. As a high school student growing up near Gettysburg, Pa I was a little confused(there were after all two black men in the band), not repulsed or offended, at least initially, that the band started sporting Confederate flags on t-shirts, posters and programs. Well... I was encouraged that Dickey kind of randomly addressed this issue head on during the interview. I've never heard any former band member touch this topic. He said the band didn't like the flag being associate with the band, or even the term 'campaign' being used, it was not what they wanted their image to be. As Dickey explain it this was just a misguided marketing ploy by their management(Phil Walden, maybe?) to the 'Southern Rock'(never liked the term). title. I was glad to hear this... for no other reason than it seemed odd to me, then, and why with two black men in your band are you using the Confederate flag as a symbol linked to the band?

Not trying to stir up a **** storm here. I'm not making any judgments on the flag either, as I do now live at the mouth of the Shenandoah Valley in a small town in Virginia that changed hands 72 times during the Civil War. Between growing up in Gettysburg and now living in Winchester I feel I have a good foundation to view our nations history, imo. I was enlightening to finally hear what the band felt about this back in the day...





[Edited on 12/21/2018 by revonah]

 
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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 01:07 PM
Not surprised. Betts is a gentleman and a scholar - all of the Allman Brothers were and are a class act, superior musicians and educated, intelligent, enlightened individuals. It was a disservice to their image and legacy to brand them in that manner.



[Edited on 12/21/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 

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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 01:54 PM
Yes - Dickey's comments were quite interesting. He said that there was a lot of aggression associated with that flag and they wanted no part of it.
As Derek pointed out at the HOF induction, being a racially mixed band in the South at that point in time was certainly not the norm and took a lot of guts. Apparently, the contracts included that fact, so the venue owners couldn't give them a hard time for being racially mixed.
In another interview, Derek was asked about Lynyrd Skynyrd and if he heard a lot of that growing up. He said no - His dad (and the band too, I guess) didn't think they were "connected" - Skynyrd waved the rebel flag etc and put the South out there, where the Allmans just played music and wanted to improvise, more jazz than Southern - they came from different places. As we know, the ABB did not consider themselves "southern rock"

[Edited on 12/21/2018 by stormyrider]

 

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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 02:08 PM
Great take from Betts on that topic.

He was so interesting to listen to. He clearly has a mature respect for the band no matter what their differences may have been...and he always has.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 03:44 PM
It is a shame that the Allman Brothers Band got lumped in with the Southern Rock fad. The Allman Brothers were advanced, ahead of their time - a fantastic and original jazzblues rock band, creative giants, a sound like no other that will never be recreated.
 

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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 05:25 PM
quote:
Not surprised. Betts is a gentleman and a scholar - all of the Allman Brothers were and are a class act, superior musicians and educated, intelligent, enlightened individuals. It was a disservice to their image and legacy to brand them in that manner.



[Edited on 12/21/2018 by BrerRabbit]


I've seen more than a little idol worship on this site, but this statement takes the proverbial cake---if meant seriously, not sarcastically of course!?!?!...

 

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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 05:27 PM
quote:
It is a shame that the Allman Brothers Band got lumped in with the Southern Rock fad. The Allman Brothers were advanced, ahead of their time - a fantastic and original jazzblues rock band, creative giants, a sound like no other that will never be recreated.


Agree. I think the fact that they were pretty much the pioneers of a sound that other bands either emulated or used as a take off point & were thus lumped in with the ABB. What eventually got labeled "Southern Rock" was attributed to ABB - right or wrong it seems to have stuck through the years. Those who know the sound of this band know that the music transcends so much more than Southern Rock.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 05:38 PM
quote:
quote:
Not surprised. Betts is a gentleman and a scholar - all of the Allman Brothers were and are a class act, superior musicians and educated, intelligent, enlightened individuals. It was a disservice to their image and legacy to brand them in that manner.

quote:
I've seen more than a little idol worship on this site, but this statement takes the proverbial cake---if meant seriously


I meant it seriously Dovetail and I don't idolize the ABB, at all. Just giving credit where it is due. Gotta say, how does anything in that post approach "idol worship"?



[Edited on 12/21/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 08:16 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Not surprised. Betts is a gentleman and a scholar - all of the Allman Brothers were and are a class act, superior musicians and educated, intelligent, enlightened individuals. It was a disservice to their image and legacy to brand them in that manner.

quote:
I've seen more than a little idol worship on this site, but this statement takes the proverbial cake---if meant seriously


I meant it seriously Dovetail and I don't idolize the ABB, at all. Just giving credit where it is due. Gotta say, how does anything in that post approach "idol worship"?
.
[Edited on 12/21/2018 by BrerRabbit]


The blanket assignment of abiding praise of these admittedly brilliant musucians, while patently ignoring the foibles and frailties of the men in this band--decidedly human as they certainly are--effectively plants a flag squarely in the territory of idol worship. But that's your choice and you are as welcome to it as your likeminded peers

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 08:34 PM
So recognizing merit means ignoring fault? Do all positive statements require a negative caveat attached to avoid being "idol worship"?

When Jimmy Carter gave Gregg an honorary degree from Mercer University should he have said, oh btw GA's a drug fiend?




[Edited on 12/22/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 

Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 08:45 PM
When I saw the original lineup and was hooked, I saw the band at every opportunity, when Duane then later Berry were lost, I had never heard of the term southern rock. We knew they were headquartered in Macon, but the ABB was playing nation wide. New York City, Boston, San Francisco, New Orleans, Atlanta, Cincinnati and college campuses. Last time I saw the band with Duane was at High Point University in North Carolina. Duane was a hippie and cool with all races of people if they were cool. He was crazy about Clapton, Hendrix, Chico Hamilton, King Curtis, Delany, Bonnie and Friends, B B King, Wilson Picket and Miles Davis.

Lynyrd Skynyrd probably got the Confederate flag thing started about the time they had Sweet Home Alabama on the charts with the message to Neil Young in the lyrics " A southern band don't need you around anyhow". Then Charlie Daniels had The South's Gonna Do It Again. The train to Grinderswitch is running right on time and them Tucker boys are cookin' down in Caroline. People down in Florida can't be still when Lynyrd Skynyrd is picking down in Jacksonville, people down in Georgia come from near and far to hear Richard Betts picking on that red guitar. Be proud to be a reble because the South's gonna do it again. Elvin Bishop sitting on a bail of hay, he ain't good lookin' but he sure can play and there is ZZ Top and you can't forget old brother Willie is getting soaking wet, and all the good people down in Tennessee are digging Barefoot Jerry and CDB. Be proud you're a rebel cause the South's gonna do it again. Red neck, white socks and Blue Ribbon Beer type of scene.

Suddenly southern rock was born and the Allman Brothers NEVER liked it and didn't identify with being a southern Confederate flag waving rebel yelling band. And as I pointed out, there was no southern rock when Duane was alive and he didn't give a damn about a Confederate flag waving band, that ain't what Duane called rock and roll. The ABB after Duane got lumped in with Marshall Tucker, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Outlaws, Molly Hatchet etc etc and they were never ever part of that sound and approach. Gregg often said he didn't like it and even when his brother was alive, their most popular sections were New York, Boston and the North East and San Francisco in addition to Atlanta, New Orleans etc.

Barefoot Jerry never broke out and Z Z Top escaped being pushed into the southern rock bin at the record stores. Hank Williams, Jr and David Allen Coe moved into the southern rock bins.

I liked Lynyrd Skynyrd but that was a different vibe and somewhat different crowd than the people who went to the Fillmore East and West, the Warehouse, Piedmont Park in Atlanta to see the ABB. We were hippies and not into the South's gonna do it again. I liked Lynyrd Skynyrd but the Confederate flag Johnny Rebel people wasn't my style and seemed a bit racist to me. We weren't rebels but hippies from all over the country, north, south, east and west and white, black, brown or red. Didn't make a damn.

 

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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 08:53 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Not surprised. Betts is a gentleman and a scholar - all of the Allman Brothers were and are a class act, superior musicians and educated, intelligent, enlightened individuals. It was a disservice to their image and legacy to brand them in that manner.

quote:
I've seen more than a little idol worship on this site, but this statement takes the proverbial cake---if meant seriously


I meant it seriously Dovetail and I don't idolize the ABB, at all. Just giving credit where it is due. Gotta say, how does anything in that post approach "idol worship"?


Do "Gentlemen" repeatedly find themselves in fights?...Or do they turn the other cheek?

 

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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 08:56 PM
Same here, when Eat a Peach came out it was just a real good record (with some flaws of course, performed by and for human beings with their attendant frailties- sorry, gotta make sure I dont get busted for idol worship again, so anything good I say about the ABB will be balanced by something not so good), there wasn't any southern rock stuff. That kicked in 73, I remember some crazed freak running around with a confederate flag at Watkins Glen, seemed strange, but then again soo did everything else so I didnt pay it much mind.
 

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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 08:59 PM
quote:
Do "Gentlemen" repeatedly find themselves in fights?...Or do they turn the other cheek?


I give up man. Yes, gentlemen f*ck up.

Anyway "gentleman and a scholar" just means an admirable person that you hold in high esteem, its an old idiom, didnt mean it literally, although Dickey Betts has more musical knowledge in his pinky toe than most other rockers combined, which makes him a true scholar. Will leave the "gentleman" bit out for the thread hyenas to fight over.

Just talkin bout Shaft . . .







[Edited on 12/22/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 09:25 PM
quote:
So recognizing merit means ignoring fault? Do all positive statements require a negative caveat attached to avoid being "idol worship"?

When Jimmy Carter gave Gregg an honorary degree from Mercer University should he have said, oh btw GA's a drug fiend

[Edited on 12/22/2018 by BrerRabbit]


never got any crayons 'cept primary colors, didja...?

 

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  posted on 12/21/2018 at 09:34 PM
quote:
When I saw the original lineup and was hooked, I saw the band at every opportunity, when Duane then later Berry were lost, I had never heard of the term southern rock. We knew they were headquartered in Macon, but the ABB was playing nation wide. New York City, Boston, San Francisco, New Orleans, Atlanta, Cincinnati and college campuses. Last time I saw the band with Duane was at High Point University in North Carolina. Duane was a hippie and cool with all races of people if they were cool. He was crazy about Clapton, Hendrix, Chico Hamilton, King Curtis, Delany, Bonnie and Friends, B B King, Wilson Picket and Miles Davis.

Lynyrd Skynyrd probably got the Confederate flag thing started about the time they had Sweet Home Alabama on the charts with the message to Neil Young in the lyrics " A southern band don't need you around anyhow". Then Charlie Daniels had The South's Gonna Do It Again. The train to Grinderswitch is running right on time and them Tucker boys are cookin' down in Caroline. People down in Florida can't be still when Lynyrd Skynyrd is picking down in Jacksonville, people down in Georgia come from near and far to hear Richard Betts picking on that red guitar. Be proud to be a reble because the South's gonna do it again. Elvin Bishop sitting on a bail of hay, he ain't good lookin' but he sure can play and there is ZZ Top and you can't forget old brother Willie is getting soaking wet, and all the good people down in Tennessee are digging Barefoot Jerry and CDB. Be proud you're a rebel cause the South's gonna do it again. Red neck, white socks and Blue Ribbon Beer type of scene.

Suddenly southern rock was born and the Allman Brothers NEVER liked it and didn't identify with being a southern Confederate flag waving rebel yelling band. And as I pointed out, there was no southern rock when Duane was alive and he didn't give a damn about a Confederate flag waving band, that ain't what Duane called rock and roll. The ABB after Duane got lumped in with Marshall Tucker, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Outlaws, Molly Hatchet etc etc and they were never ever part of that sound and approach. Gregg often said he didn't like it and even when his brother was alive, their most popular sections were New York, Boston and the North East and San Francisco in addition to Atlanta, New Orleans etc.

Barefoot Jerry never broke out and Z Z Top escaped being pushed into the southern rock bin at the record stores. Hank Williams, Jr and David Allen Coe moved into the southern rock bins.

I liked Lynyrd Skynyrd but that was a different vibe and somewhat different crowd than the people who went to the Fillmore East and West, the Warehouse, Piedmont Park in Atlanta to see the ABB. We were hippies and not into the South's gonna do it again. I liked Lynyrd Skynyrd but the Confederate flag Johnny Rebel people wasn't my style and seemed a bit racist to me. We weren't rebels but hippies from all over the country, north, south, east and west and white, black, brown or red. Didn't make a damn.


Appreciate your stories and history of the band.


[Edited on 12/22/2018 by DeadMallard]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/22/2018 at 12:09 AM
quote:
never got any crayons 'cept primary colors, didja...?


Why the personal attack pal? Nothing I've said insulted you.

[Edited on 12/22/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 

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  posted on 12/22/2018 at 06:08 AM
To me the Allman Brothers never fit in the Southern rock Genre with Skynard, Marshall tucker,molly hatchet.. But ya know I am sure the Band made a good chunk of $ having the music being associated with southern rock, especially in the 80's when they didn't exist anymore. It is what it is.
 

Peach Master



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  posted on 12/22/2018 at 03:44 PM
quote:
quote:
never got any crayons 'cept primary colors, didja...?


Why the personal attack pal? Nothing I've said insulted you.

[Edited on 12/22/2018 by BrerRabbit]


No attack(s) intended, just observations offered, mostly tongue-in-cheek!?!?!...A pity, tho no surprise, to encounter so defensive an attitude, but then, taking note of your screen-name.....!?!?!

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 12/22/2018 at 03:54 PM
quote:
No attack(s) intended, just observations offered, mostly tongue-in-cheek!?!?!...A pity, tho no surprise, to encounter so defensive an attitude, but then, taking note of your screen-name.....!?!?!


Every post another dig. So far all you've got on this thread is a rip on a simple post where I was feeling some love for the Betts and ABB, then tracked my posts to the exclusion of any other posts. How about joining the discussion instead?

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 12/22/2018 at 04:03 PM
quote:
quote:
No attack(s) intended, just observations offered, mostly tongue-in-cheek!?!?!...A pity, tho no surprise, to encounter so defensive an attitude, but then, taking note of your screen-name.....!?!?!


Every post another dig. So far all you've got on this thread is a rip on a simple post where I was feeling some love for the Betts and ABB, then tracked my posts to the exclusion of any other posts. How about joining the discussion instead?


Appreciate the invite to discuss, but not enlightening here...but, to be fair, most web forums are not....As (the original) MTB once sang "See You Later, I'm Gone"!!!!!

 

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  posted on 12/23/2018 at 03:47 AM
The story of how the rebel flag got into the ABB marketing material and merchandise products as told to me by Ira Sokoloff:

Ira (a NJ native) worked for concert promoters Jimmy Koplik and Shelly Finkel of Cross Country concerts. For an upcoming ABB concert at Nassau Coliseum (May 1, 1973) he created a full page ad (placed in the Village Voice) that included a rebel flag. He also printed up some t-shirts for the band and management utilizing the ad artwork. Management liked the t-shirt and asked him to sell some at the show. Sales were surprisingly good. On the basis of that ad alone Phil Walden flew him down to Macon for an interview and he was hired on the spot.

Ira and a partner went on to found Great Southern T-shirt Company which became the merchandising arm for Capricorn Records. Later in his career, Ira broke the world record for the most merchandise ever sold at a concert Depeche Mode in the Rose Bowl I think.

Interesting to note that it was a northerner (no offense Ira) who inserted the Confederate flag into the ABB marketing and merchandise products. Hollywierd and most of the country always point to the South as racist region. Ive always believed that, while there are many, many true horror stories of racism in the South, we also had some of the best relationships between blacks and whites in the country. The Allman Brothers Band represented that to me and my brothers and helped spread that love for one another.

JNB

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 12/23/2018 at 06:44 AM
Of course Joe Bell would know the details behind the ABB merch issue.
Thanks, Joe....I appreciate the information.

 

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  posted on 12/23/2018 at 07:58 PM
Gonna post this again, from an album Phil Walden & his marketing team had nothing to do with (Brothers Of the Road).....:

 

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  posted on 12/23/2018 at 09:50 PM
You are right. There was a lot of pressure on the band from Clive Davis to put out an album with a couple hit singles and sell as many records as Brothers and Sisters and Lynyrd Skynyrd. Davis insisted John Ryan produce the album and cash in on the southern rock thing. Davis was disappointed with Reach For The Sky which failed to go gold but this album didn't sell as well as their RFTS. Straight From The Heart was suppose to be the next Ramblin' Man and it did crack the top 40 but not the top 10. The album had background singers who weren't in the band. Charlie Daniels on fiddle and a sax solo. Butch Trucks said this record and Clive Davis almost ruined the bands legacy and everybody was disgusted. There was another album on the contract but they refused to record it. Gregg was so irritated with the whole Clive Davis/Arister deal he took the Toler Brothers and hit the road hoping to build a solo career so Dickey and Butch decided to shelve the band and they put Betts, Hall, Leavell and Trucks together but after two years failed to attract a record deal so Trucks quit and Matt Apps joined. Several years later Warren Haynes joined Dickey's band and instantly wanted to put a band together with Matt and they did in 1994.

Phil Walden and Capricorn were out of business by this time and one of the big reasons was Dickey sued Phil Walden for royalty payments that went back to Idlewild South. Dickey won well over a million dollars then others got in line to sue and Phil filed for bankruptcy. The bands last album for Phil Walden, Enlightened Rouges, did go gold.

 

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