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Author: Subject: Can Trump save Jobs like these?

World Class Peach





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  posted on 1/4/2017 at 09:54 PM
Macy's is closing 68 stores, cutting 10,000 jobs

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/companies/macys-job-cuts-stock/index.h tml

related reading

Car sales set another U.S. record

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/companies/car-sales-2016/index.html?ii d=hp-stack-dom

GM, Chrysler have more workers in Mexico than Ford

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/economy/ford-gm-chrysler-mexican-jobs/ index.html

[Edited on 1/5/2017 by LeglizHemp]

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/4/2017 at 10:51 PM
It took many decades of miserable economic and trade policy from multiple administrations to hollow out our manufacturing sector. Who could possibly bring that back quickly?

If anything, I feel Trump is not being bold enough in his plans for economic reform to improve conditions for business. His tax reforms are too timid. Business should pay zero income taxes, as all such expenses just get incorporated into product prices, and therefore passed on to consumers. Business tax is a fraud. The IRS should be scraped, and all personal income tax converted to a single national sales tax used to run the Federal gov't. If structured along the lines of the Fair Tax provisions, it will not be regressive.

At least we have a new administration who promises to seek improvement, instead of the last one that spent as much time trying to convince us that low labor participation was the "new normal", and that so many jobs were just not coming back.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 1/4/2017 at 11:09 PM
quote:
Macy's is closing 68 stores, cutting 10,000 jobs

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/companies/macys-job-cuts-stock/index.h tml

related reading

Car sales set another U.S. record

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/companies/car-sales-2016/index.html?ii d=hp-stack-dom

GM, Chrysler have more workers in Mexico than Ford

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/economy/ford-gm-chrysler-mexican-jobs/ index.html

[Edited on 1/5/2017 by LeglizHemp]

___________________________________________________________________________ _____________

Few can save the brick and mortar retailers who failed to change their business model and purchasing practices.

The few who could know better than to step into that mess.

Macy's, J.C. Penny, Sears/K-Mart, Dillards and more "department store" chains as well as old style grocery stores are doomed.

There ain't no money in retail folks.


 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/4/2017 at 11:30 PM
quote:
Business should pay zero income taxes, as all such expenses just get incorporated into product prices, and therefore passed on to consumers. Business tax is a fraud.


And then the executives will sing and dance down the street and feed the homeless and donate to charities. Lower product prices will lead to happiness, which leads to innovation, which eliminates poverty and crime! Thank you Trump and corporations!

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/4/2017 at 11:58 PM
quote:
quote:
Business should pay zero income taxes, as all such expenses just get incorporated into product prices, and therefore passed on to consumers. Business tax is a fraud.
And then the executives will sing and dance down the street and feed the homeless and donate to charities. Lower product prices will lead to happiness, which leads to innovation, which eliminates poverty and crime! Thank you Trump and corporations!
The real lack of understanding in this response is the last word - corporations. The tax changes I speak of won't help them. In fact they would fight it tooth and nail, through their paid-for political hacks.

Removal of business income tax would mostly help smaller companies, who don't have the resources to avoid taxation as big corporations do. Capitalism would be set in better balance, leveling the playing field more than it is today between large and small. Isn't it always the left that screams about big corporations paying no taxes? Why wouldn't we want to remove that source of inequity and political cronyism?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 09:39 AM
Mule i agree, retail is in real trouble because of the internet.

Fuji, I think in a basic sense you are correct also. Technology is the enemy of manufacturing jobs though. I'm not sure the policy changes you are talking about will create those jobs.

sure there wasn't a lot of growth the last 8 years, but there was growth.

we will see if policy changes can overcome the hump we have to get over to achieve higher growth. technology will always be putting pressure on job growth.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 10:45 AM
quote:
The real lack of understanding in this response is the last word - corporations. The tax changes I speak of won't help them. In fact they would fight it tooth and nail, through their paid-for political hacks.


Fine. But the theory that less or zero taxes on a business owner will lower prices for the consumer sounds like b.s. I'm sure there are plenty of strategies that would benefit an owner if they did pass it on to the consumer, but no way in hell would most of them use it. Prices would stay the same, more money in the pocket of the owners. More power to them for sure - I wish I could be in that position. Those breaks would not get passed down.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 12:04 PM
quote:
quote:
The real lack of understanding in this response is the last word - corporations. The tax changes I speak of won't help them. In fact they would fight it tooth and nail, through their paid-for political hacks.
Fine. But the theory that less or zero taxes on a business owner will lower prices for the consumer sounds like b.s. I'm sure there are plenty of strategies that would benefit an owner if they did pass it on to the consumer, but no way in hell would most of them use it. Prices would stay the same, more money in the pocket of the owners. More power to them for sure - I wish I could be in that position. Those breaks would not get passed down.
Maybe you've never been in a position where you have to make a sales quota against fierce competition, but I can guarantee that the downward pressure on prices is relentless and endless. As long as we're dealing with products/services that are sold in a relatively "free" market space (normal levels of regulation), then competition will take care of downward price pressure. That would only improve if conditions are such that the playing field is leveled a bit between small and larger companies - exactly what big corporations fear.

Ironically, where prices are the most insulated from normal market forces is where gov't is most involved. Healthcare is the best example. College tuition is another

But my comments were not directed at prices. I want better conditions for proper capitalism to flourish here once again so that more people will be working. When labor is in higher demand, wages will rise as a function of healthy economic growth. Get gov't out of the business of picking private sector winners and losers, set the best possible conditions for healthy business opportunity vs the global competition, and go from there.

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 03:04 PM
quote:
Macy's is closing 68 stores, cutting 10,000 jobs

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/companies/macys-job-cuts-stock/index.h tml

related reading

Car sales set another U.S. record

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/companies/car-sales-2016/index.html?ii d=hp-stack-dom

GM, Chrysler have more workers in Mexico than Ford

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/news/economy/ford-gm-chrysler-mexican-jobs/ index.html

[Edited on 1/5/2017 by LeglizHemp]


Two very different situations there, retail jobs at Macys and auto jobs.

If demand and sales drop off as in the case for what Macy stores are facing, what could be done there? People aren't buying what they are selling.

Compare that to the auto industry where you have an article stating another year of record breaking sales. Just as those sales figures increase, you can believe that imports of components and finished products have too surged accordingly with most of the import growth coming from US and foreign brands building more in Mexico and South Korea brands building more in their home country for export to the US market.

So then we are talking about jobs in a sector that is growing and demand is strong for autos, surely jobs within that sector can be "saved". Jobs in that sector are very much needed and should be strong. It's just a matter of where those jobs get sustained, expanded or created.

Another day, another Trump tweet on an auto manufacturer, this time a threat to Toyota's new plant under construction in Mexico for Corollas destined for the US market. I am fine with him firing these warning shots, but the policy must be laid for all to see. Are we going to say any autos a company imported into the US over x% will be subject to y% tax/tariff. What Trump is engaging in now is stump speech stuff, for a man who is going to take POTUS office in about 2 weeks he needs to jump ahead several steps and start talking in terms everyone in the auto industry, or any industry can understand and plan around.

The other thing is, if Trump can sweet talk or paint the picture of friendly business atmosphere that leads to certain companies to reconsider their outsourcing of jobs that is fine. But, if we are talking changing trade law, which Trump is, then he is going to have to show how he plans to get something passed through Congress and able to withstand or evade legal challenges from the WTO. The Congress part of the equation is particularly interesting since most within his own party will not back his economic nationalist, make it in the USA agenda and the tariffs that go with it, where as, many on the Democrat side, those often backed by labor unions should be thrilled by such proposals. Will make for some interesting bedfellows.

[Edited on 1/5/2017 by nebish]

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 03:16 PM
the reason i posted the 2 diff situations was because i think it is much easier for trump to cajole a thriving auto industry in to making small changes that make him look good than to find a way to tackle some of the tougher issues with saving other jobs. as mule pointed out, the internet is killing them.

15 more days......we'll all get to see what happens.

Sears and Kmart closing 150 stores

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/05/investing/sears-kmart-closing-stores/index. html

 

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Who are all those people that he's locked away up there

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 04:22 PM
Bottom line manufacturing jobs are substantially more important to save, maintain or grow compared to retail store jobs.

It's been several years since I was in a KMart and it was always like a wasteland, old dingy store with nobody in it. Sears switched Craftsman tools from USA to China a few years back so I lost my use for Sears, but same thing it was always like a ghost town in there. Compare that to Target or Walmart. There is still a need for retail but the herd is being thinned.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 05:16 PM
quote:
Bottom line manufacturing jobs are substantially more important to save, maintain or grow compared to retail store jobs.

It's been several years since I was in a KMart and it was always like a wasteland, old dingy store with nobody in it. Sears switched Craftsman tools from USA to China a few years back so I lost my use for Sears, but same thing it was always like a ghost town in there. Compare that to Target or Walmart. There is still a need for retail but the herd is being thinned.
Ive bought craftsman tools from sears in the past few years, and they are all stamped "Made in the USA". I heard today that they are going to be owned by "Stanley" which I believe are now manufactured overseas.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 05:34 PM
quote:
quote:
Bottom line manufacturing jobs are substantially more important to save, maintain or grow compared to retail store jobs.

It's been several years since I was in a KMart and it was always like a wasteland, old dingy store with nobody in it. Sears switched Craftsman tools from USA to China a few years back so I lost my use for Sears, but same thing it was always like a ghost town in there. Compare that to Target or Walmart. There is still a need for retail but the herd is being thinned.
Ive bought craftsman tools from sears in the past few years, and they are all stamped "Made in the USA". I heard today that they are going to be owned by "Stanley" which I believe are now manufactured overseas.


If you don't mind me asking, which tools were they?

Being in the automotive business I have and need alot of tools. All the Craftsman ratchets, sockets, wrenches and many specialty tools that had always been USA were now China or Taiwan. In fact, I remember when the switch over began. Ironically, all the USA made stuff in the old packaging was onsale in order to make room for the imported tools in different packaging.

You can still buy some new old stock Craftsman USA tools on ebay, as I do, and many of those sellers will advertise their products as "the last of the USA stock".

Maybe a hammer or some screwdrivers you bought were USA? I'm pretty interested in what you bought that was still USA.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 07:00 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Bottom line manufacturing jobs are substantially more important to save, maintain or grow compared to retail store jobs.

It's been several years since I was in a KMart and it was always like a wasteland, old dingy store with nobody in it. Sears switched Craftsman tools from USA to China a few years back so I lost my use for Sears, but same thing it was always like a ghost town in there. Compare that to Target or Walmart. There is still a need for retail but the herd is being thinned.
Ive bought craftsman tools from sears in the past few years, and they are all stamped "Made in the USA". I heard today that they are going to be owned by "Stanley" which I believe are now manufactured overseas.


If you don't mind me asking, which tools were they?

Being in the automotive business I have and need alot of tools. All the Craftsman ratchets, sockets, wrenches and many specialty tools that had always been USA were now China or Taiwan. In fact, I remember when the switch over began. Ironically, all the USA made stuff in the old packaging was onsale in order to make room for the imported tools in different packaging.

You can still buy some new old stock Craftsman USA tools on ebay, as I do, and many of those sellers will advertise their products as "the last of the USA stock".

Maybe a hammer or some screwdrivers you bought were USA? I'm pretty interested in what you bought that was still USA.
Most recent was a large pry-bar and a dual halogen lamp [1K watt] w/tri-pod.

[Edited on 1/6/2017 by pops42]

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 07:25 PM
Pops bought a pry bar to demo his Obama shrine and I'm with Her billboards.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 07:52 PM
being a manufacturer, design and build, i am curious nebish.....you own a lot of metric tools?

lol sorry.....just a subtle globalization dig.

we have to incorporate a lot of metric screws and o rings in designs. also either metric or dual dimensioning.

and also special cutting tools that aren't made in USA

[Edited on 1/6/2017 by LeglizHemp]

 

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Who are all those people that he's locked away up there

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 08:32 PM
quote:
being a manufacturer, design and build, i am curious nebish.....you own a lot of metric tools?

lol sorry.....just a subtle globalization dig.

we have to incorporate a lot of metric screws and o rings in designs. also either metric or dual dimensioning.

and also special cutting tools that aren't made in USA

[Edited on 1/6/2017 by LeglizHemp]


The worst is when the vehicle has a mix of standard and metric fasteners. So you get down on the floor with a collection of tools you think you need...oh damn this is metric, get up and get more tools! Jeep is good for that. Jeep always seemed used odds and ends, parts from here or there.

Do you use torx head fasteners? I have a special hate for torx style bolts.

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 08:44 PM
LOL

no allen

our product is 70 yrs old.....it's hard to change it completely over to metric because of things in the field already

 

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Who are all those people that he's locked away up there

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True Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 08:47 PM
quote:
Most recent was a large pry-bar and a dual halogen lamp [1K watt] w/tri-pod.


I could see the pry bar. Mayhew makes nice prybars...the steel bar I've seen US, if you get the nice rubberized handles, the handle is made in Taiwan though. I think the not as nice plastic handle is US.

I would be surprised that the lamp was actually US, but I will take your word for that as I have never personally looked and don't own one.

There was quite an uproar when Craftsman switched their hand tool line to China, as the brand had always been associated with made in USA. I looked back online and there are a bunch of mechanic/handy man type forums discussing the issue back as early as 2010 I guess it was.

Shortly after they started to market the tools differently as well on TV commercials. More of the gimmick type stuff that Kobalt does.

When Home Depot came out with the Husky hand tool line many years ago, those tools were USA and produced by SK (Craftsman was produced by Danahar). Husky switched to imported tools maybe 10 years ago, I have some Kobalt US tools, but know that they now are almost exclusively an import line.

All these companies are massive in the products sold under their umbrella. Stanley also owns Dewalt. Dewalt has been introducing more power tools "assembled in USA with domestic and global materials". You'll see the American flag on some Dewalt power tools in your box stores. This is great. For a long time there was a void of power tools made/assembled in the US.

Stanley also owns MAC tools which is a professional line. When I was in trade school we had an opportunity to purchase MAC and Snap On tools at a nice discount. There are some USA hand tools available to the professional, but in terms of walking into the autoparts store or the hardware store and buying common hand tools made in USA that is pretty much gone.

 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/5/2017 at 08:52 PM
Danahar also made the tools in the US for Napa Autoparts. Now Napa's line of tools are all import. Sometimes you find the exception. I bought a wire brush that was USA the other day at Napa. I saved the wrapper. Those are almost always made in Mexico. Lisle tools found in some autoparts stores have some US tools, but I've also seen some of their tools I own that are US that are now import.
 

True Peach



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  posted on 1/6/2017 at 11:00 PM
Another win for Trump?

Maybe lack of real policy and vague tweets get more results than we think?

Excerpt from USA Today



quote:
One of the nation's best-known toolmakers, Stanley Black & Decker, said Thursday that it will move more manufacturing back to the U.S. from overseas, including construction of a new $35 million factory after acquiring the Craftsman brand from ailing retailer Sears Holdings.

Expanding American manufacturing makes "business sense" amid "pervasive" uncertainty regarding the future of U.S. trade with China and Mexico, Stanley Black & Decker CEO James Loree told investors Thursday in a conference call.

Although he did not mention Donald Trump by name in his remarks to investors, Loree hinted that the move has the side benefit of inoculating his company from the possible effects of the president-elect's threatened "border tax," a tariff on imports.

"Itís going to be advisable to have more manufacturing in the U.S.," Loree said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/01/05/stanley-black-decker-sears-h oldings-craftsman-donald-trump/96192526/



No "pervasive uncertainty" regarding US trade with China or Mexico before Trump. Nobody saying things like "it's going to be advisable to have more manufacturing in the US".

 
 


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