Don't click or your IP will be banned


Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band Forum
You are not logged in

< Last Thread   Next Thread ><<  1    2    3  >>Ascending sortDescending sorting  
Author: Subject: Arizona Shooting Range Instructor Killed by 9-year-old Girl With Uzi

True Peach





Posts: 12503
(12493 all sites)
Registered: 4/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 09:51 AM
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/arizona-shooting-range-instructor-kille d-girl-uzi-n189611

A 9-year-old learning to shoot an Uzi...can someone explain to my why anyone, especially parents, would think that this is a good idea? Can't drive on public roads until 16, can't vote or legally have sex until 18, can't drink alcohol until 21, but firing a powerful weapon that has no other purpose that to kill is ok starting at 8 years old? That is insane.

 

____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 
Visit User's Homepage
Replies:

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4772
(4786 all sites)
Registered: 12/5/2001
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 10:35 AM
Totally irresponsible on the parts of the parents and the instructor. The parents should be arrested. An Uzi is only used to kill people and the instructor taught the child well, it certainly worked, he's dead.

[Edited on 8/27/2014 by Peachypetewi]

 

____________________
"Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all". John Maynard Keynes

 

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3375
(3374 all sites)
Registered: 10/5/2005
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 10:35 AM
Collassal parenting failure. Ths is redux because I think a young boy died at a gun show doing the same thing only they didnt harm anyone else. The fact the parents were filming makes it appear that they wanted some cool footage to post on the internet.

In my home state, clueless parents thought it was ok to let their 16 year old captain a high speed powerboat (over 200 hp) and also pull a tuber. ALthough a 16 yo can legally operate a boat, pulling a tuber with no adult on board is questionable.

Sadly, the 16 yo promptly ran over her friend after she fell off and killed her. This is like allowing a kid with little road experience pull out of your driveway with a 20 ft trailer in tow and expect everything to turn out ok.

Who knows what any of these parents were thinking. I am sure their are some that will argue that they know individulas who can do all of the above safely but as a parent you have to be responsible for others as well.


 

____________________

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 47035
(47036 all sites)
Registered: 7/8/2004
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 10:51 AM
There's video of this incident. My knowledge of guns is limited, but it looks like the instructor made some huge mistakes. Crazy that he had his face that close to the gun.

As far as whether or not she should be firing an Uzi in the first place, that's squarely on the parents, of course.

 

____________________
"Live every week like it's Shark Week." - Tracy Jordan

 

Ultimate Peach



Karma:
Posts: 3070
(3075 all sites)
Registered: 5/30/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 11:16 AM
Sublime idiocy! First off the Uzi is 1950's technology and not a very safe nor accurate firearm. The instructor is manipulating the safety from single fire to full auto for the student which is something that you don't do period. Next, you don't hand someone a loaded weapon and then tell them to adjust their footing while they are holding the weapon in the fire position. The shooter does not have a firm grip on the forward stock with the non-firing hand and while on full auto the weapon pulls up and to the left which then cause the weapon to discharge into the instructors face.

All other arguments posted here are self evident.

 

____________________
"What we do in life echoes in eternity."




 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 12503
(12493 all sites)
Registered: 4/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 11:17 AM
If any incident challenges the notion that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", this would be one.

 

____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9182
(25131 all sites)
Registered: 10/30/2010
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 11:25 AM
quote:
If any incident challenges the notion that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", this would be one.


Yeah, how so? This is clearly a case of human error by complete failure to exercise proper judgement and safety procedure.

[Edited on 8/27/2014 by alanwoods]

 

____________________

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8271
(8271 all sites)
Registered: 6/9/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 11:37 AM
quote:
The instructor is manipulating the safety from single fire to full auto for the student which is something that you don't do period. Next, you don't hand someone a loaded weapon and then tell them to adjust their footing while they are holding the weapon in the fire position.


Bet he won't do that again.

 

____________________
Capitalism will always survive, because socialism will be there to save it.

Ralph Nader's Father


 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 12503
(12493 all sites)
Registered: 4/4/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 11:38 AM
quote:
quote:
If any incident challenges the notion that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", this would be one.


Yeah, how so? This is clearly a case of human error by complete failure to exercise proper judgement and safety procedure.

[Edited on 8/27/2014 by alanwoods]

In every way. Of course there is a human factor here but the weapon itself was a major factor in this. You can't tell me this tragedy would have happened had they been teaching her to wield a knife or throw a stone.

I do agree that there was a complete failure to exercise proper judgement and safety procedure, starting with putting any gun, especially a full-auto Uzi, into the hands of a 9-year-old.

 

____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 9182
(25131 all sites)
Registered: 10/30/2010
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 12:03 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
If any incident challenges the notion that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", this would be one.


Yeah, how so? This is clearly a case of human error by complete failure to exercise proper judgement and safety procedure.

[Edited on 8/27/2014 by alanwoods]

In every way. Of course there is a human factor here but the weapon itself was a major factor in this. You can't tell me this tragedy would have happened had they been teaching her to wield a knife or throw a stone.

I do agree that there was a complete failure to exercise proper judgement and safety procedure, starting with putting any gun, especially a full-auto Uzi, into the hands of a 9-year-old.



It appears we agree on this for the most part.

I received a 20ga shotgun for Christmas when I was 8. It was a single shot breach load. I was also shooting a single shot bolt action .22 that my grandfather had. At all times I was heavily supervised, and usually just shot rat shot in the .22. When I went hunting with the 20ga, I was not allowed to chamber a shell until the dogs were on point and I was told where I could shoot or the squirrel had been spotted. Safety was a very serious issue.

I can't remember when I got my first BB gun.

Under no circumstances - even if we would have had access to an Uzi - would I have been allowed to handle it.

The point I am making is that 9 years old may not be such a young age to shoot selected firearms, but an Uzi would not be included in that list.

Stupidity killed that man. He should have known that girl couldn't handle the recoil in full auto.

[Edited on 8/27/2014 by alanwoods]

 

____________________

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4645
(4643 all sites)
Registered: 8/26/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 02:40 PM
This is just further reflection to the nutty gun culture in America. Why would anybody think it's a good idea for their 9 year old to shoot an uzi? The only reason I could think of is for someone to post a picture on Facebook bragging about their child using an uzi, or to somehow think that they are making an argument about the safety of firearms.

My 8 year old son, just this year, started to learn to shoot BB guns at cub scout camp. After a week of instructor training, he still isn't really doing it safely. Granted, I could see some children his age shooting maybe a .22 safely under close supervision if they have been shooting a BB gun for a while and have shown to be doing it safely 100% of the time, but why would any parent feel the need for a child to be exposed to anything beyond that? There is no need for it. What point are you trying to prove? Obviously it's not for gun safety or to teach them to hunt or to teach them to defend themselves. Maybe the parents think their daughter needs to know how to fire an uzi in case Obama comes for their guns. I don't know, but I feel sorry for the girl. I don't particularly feel sorry for the instructor or the parents.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 21601
(21661 all sites)
Registered: 2/9/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 04:25 PM
quote:
quote:
If any incident challenges the notion that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", this would be one.


Yeah, how so? This is clearly a case of human error by complete failure to exercise proper judgement and safety procedure.


I blame the idiot parents. I ran into a friend of mine who is a pro/guitarist who also teaches kids to play guitar and this topic arose over a beer.

"Most 9 year olds can't even hold a guitar correctly" he told me.

Say no more.

 

____________________
"And we're like, the world is gonna end in 12 years if we don't address climate change" - Congresswoman Box of rocks

 

True Peach



Karma:
Posts: 14308
(14362 all sites)
Registered: 7/17/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 04:35 PM
Regardless of anybody's stance on guns - I actually feel for the little girl. I doubt that this "training" was her idea, at least initially. She's still at an age where she should be playing with Barbie dolls. She'll have this with her for a long, long time.

 

____________________
Music is love, and love is music, if you know what I mean.
People who believe in music are the happiest people I've ever seen.

Bill Ector, Randy Stephens, Dan Hills and a guy named BobO who I never met - Forever in my heart!

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4645
(4643 all sites)
Registered: 8/26/2006
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 06:08 PM
quote:
There's video of this incident. My knowledge of guns is limited, but it looks like the instructor made some huge mistakes. Crazy that he had his face that close to the gun.


Yes, it is crazy that he had his face so close to the gun, but had his face not been there maybe someone else might have been hit instead. One reason I'm always nervous about going to the range myself.

quote:
As far as whether or not she should be firing an Uzi in the first place, that's squarely on the parents, of course.


The parents were idiots, but so was the range for allowing young children to shoot these types of weapons. Although many people here will say they shot weapons safely at a young age, fact is that young children still don't have the mental or physical capacity to operate this type of weapon. That is why we don't allow 10 year olds to drive, even if the parents think they are "mature enough." I am a cubmaster in Cub Scouts and it is heard enough to teach children this age to tie a proper knot or to have them safely roast marshmallows around a fire while in a group without poking each other in the eye with a sharp stick.

I can't wait to see some states try to pass a law stating that children under the age of 10 not be allowed to shoot automatic weapons, and then have the NRA have a fit talking about their 2nd amendment rights being violated. It's going to happen, just watch.

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8480
(8480 all sites)
Registered: 10/12/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 06:42 PM
quote:

I can't wait to see some states try to pass a law stating that children under the age of 10 not be allowed to shoot automatic weapons, and then have the NRA have a fit talking about their 2nd amendment rights being violated. It's going to happen, just watch.


Of course it will happen. More weapons in the hands of more people, regardless of their age, makes us a much safer nation. Why can't you see it? Don't you have any common sense?

 

____________________
Don't let the sounds of your own wheels
Drive you crazy
Lighten up while you still can
Don't even try to understand
Just find a place to take your stand
And TAKE IT EASY

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5633
(5632 all sites)
Registered: 9/9/2011
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 06:50 PM
what does the NRA or Ted Nugent have say?
 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20603
(21069 all sites)
Registered: 1/19/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 07:19 PM
Uncle Ted can speak for himself, but the NRA did point out that the Instructor was NOT an NRA trained instructor. I watched the video and the reason the instructor was killed was because he had his hand on the shooter's back, not on her shoulder where he could have deflected the barrel when she lost control due to the kick.

Personally I don't think a child should be trained in large guns. Even in Afghanistan and Pakistan, even the women only receive light arms training. Nobody expects them to be able to launch shoulder fired missiles.

Children do not have the muscles or strength to effectively deal with the recoil of many weapons. If you have to train a child, only train them with small caliber pistols or a small shotgun. If there is an intruder they can aim pretty much anywhere on the scumbags body sufficient enough to put a hole there and stop him. For those who think why train the child at all, there are many single parents out there who do what they got to do, and the child might be alone for a couple of hours, that is the reality.

One person was asked about what should be done to make sure somebody is punished for this and his answer was the child who did it will remember it for the rest of their life, the instructor's family will remember it for the rest of his life, they are already punished.

Now we know if the instructor was black and the shooter was white, Al Sharpton would be marching on Arizona when he's done in Missouri and Staten Island. Thank God they were both white so they can leave race out of it.

 

____________________
"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 20603
(21069 all sites)
Registered: 1/19/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 07:21 PM
quote:
Sublime idiocy! First off the Uzi is 1950's technology and not a very safe nor accurate firearm. The instructor is manipulating the safety from single fire to full auto for the student which is something that you don't do period. Next, you don't hand someone a loaded weapon and then tell them to adjust their footing while they are holding the weapon in the fire position. The shooter does not have a firm grip on the forward stock with the non-firing hand and while on full auto the weapon pulls up and to the left which then cause the weapon to discharge into the instructors face.

All other arguments posted here are self evident.


Very good advice and insight.

 

____________________
"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5032
(5027 all sites)
Registered: 12/27/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 07:24 PM
Just another example of over-sensitive nutjobs who feel a need to prove their strength with guns. There are many victims in this sad story...the instructor, the family and friends of the instructor, the family and friends of the innocent girl, but most of the all, the real victim is the girl. That poor girl will be scarred for life and none of it is her fault. Her parents should be deeply ashamed of themselves for putting her in such a dangerous situation. Shame on them. What fools they are.

How is it possibly legal for a 9-year old to operate a firearm in any situation? We have to be 16 to drive a car, but it's ok to shoot a firearm at 9 years old? If there is any pro-gun right-wing NRA supporter here who thinks it's ok for a 9-year to handle a firearm, I'd like to hear your reasoning....and please include your reason why it should then be ok for a 9-year old to drive a car on the highway, as long as the parent is in the passenger seat, it should be ok, right?

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5633
(5632 all sites)
Registered: 9/9/2011
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 07:30 PM
never can tell when Ted "NRA Board Member" Nugent is speaking for himself.

as for the law there is no age limit in arizona to shoot any kind of gun. age 8 was the policy of the shooting range. it could be 5 years old at the range up the road. i'm pretty sure that the legislature will revisit this issue though.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



Karma:
Posts: 4868
(4936 all sites)
Registered: 4/13/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 07:47 PM
We live in a world where people are just plain sacred of everything. This girls parents are afraid of life. So they feel the need to be at the ready even with their 9 year old.

Here's fact....If someone wants you dead bad enough it doesn't matter how many guns you own they will get you.

So continue to believe in a false sense of safety....they will get you if they want you bad enough....take that to heart because that is a fact.....

A 9 year old girl should be playing with her friends and not be laid at the door of fear for life because her parents live in constant fear....

Just think what this poor child will have to live with the rest of her life....Why???? because her parents....most likely her father is afraid of everything...

 

____________________
Believin' is alright just don't believe in the wrong thing....Sonny Boy Williamson

 
E-Mail User

Universal Peach



Karma:
Posts: 6220
(6219 all sites)
Registered: 4/18/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 09:28 PM
quote:
quote:
Sublime idiocy! First off the Uzi is 1950's technology and not a very safe nor accurate firearm. The instructor is manipulating the safety from single fire to full auto for the student which is something that you don't do period. Next, you don't hand someone a loaded weapon and then tell them to adjust their footing while they are holding the weapon in the fire position. The shooter does not have a firm grip on the forward stock with the non-firing hand and while on full auto the weapon pulls up and to the left which then cause the weapon to discharge into the instructors face.

All other arguments posted here are self evident.


Very good advice and insight.


Very true statement. Firing on full auto, you not only have the recoil to deal with, but something called "muzzle climb".
If, and only if, you are instructing a minor in full auto never, NEVER, load more than four rounds in the magazine. They get the fun of hearing it go off quickly, but all rounds are fired before the muzzle climb and recoil can get away from the minor.
I agree that the instructor was negligent in his methods. Did he give the girl some support (hand between shoulder blades, hand over arm supporting firearm) to prevent the muzzle climb? I didn't see any.
If the girl had been able to go through a full magazine, she more than likely would have been on her back shooting (hopefully) at the sky.

I taught both my children to shoot a .38 revolver at age 3. Put one round in the cylinder, index it to fire next, pull back the hammer, and let them look at the sky when the recoil knocked them over.
They then had respect for what the firearm could do, and what happens when the bullet hits something similar to the human head, like a cantaloupe.
Within a week of starting, both could put five rounds into the 6, 7, and 8 rings at fifteen feet.

 

____________________
All photos posted of family, friends, and places, including those of historic ABB value, by this poster are copyrighted by the poster, or posted by permission of the copywriter.
None of those photos may be reproduced for commercial gain.

 

Maximum Peach



Karma:
Posts: 8480
(8480 all sites)
Registered: 10/12/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 09:49 PM
quote:

We live in a world where people are just plain sacred of everything. This girls parents are afraid of life. So they feel the need to be at the ready even with their 9 year old.

Here's fact....If someone wants you dead bad enough it doesn't matter how many guns you own they will get you.

So continue to believe in a false sense of safety....they will get you if they want you bad enough....take that to heart because that is a fact.....

A 9 year old girl should be playing with her friends and not be laid at the door of fear for life because her parents live in constant fear....

Just think what this poor child will have to live with the rest of her life....Why???? because her parents....most likely her father is afraid of everything...


Great and very pertinent commentary Ron and I agree with ALL of it...........

 

____________________
Don't let the sounds of your own wheels
Drive you crazy
Lighten up while you still can
Don't even try to understand
Just find a place to take your stand
And TAKE IT EASY

 

World Class Peach



Karma:
Posts: 5032
(5027 all sites)
Registered: 12/27/2003
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 10:02 PM
quote:
I taught both my children to shoot a .38 revolver at age 3. Put one round in the cylinder, index it to fire next, pull back the hammer, and let them look at the sky when the recoil knocked them over.


Jerry, you've shown yourself to be an intelligent and reasonable human being. But I think you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why you felt a need to teach a 3-year old to shoot a gun. That's a very poor decision and you know it. I support children learning how to fire a gun...when they have the physical and mental capacity to do so. My nephew is 3, and it is beyond absurd to imagine him firing a gun. Instead of justifying your decision, take the high road and admit you should have waited a few more years.

 

Universal Peach



Karma:
Posts: 6220
(6219 all sites)
Registered: 4/18/2002
Status: Offline

  posted on 8/27/2014 at 10:18 PM
quote:
quote:
I taught both my children to shoot a .38 revolver at age 3. Put one round in the cylinder, index it to fire next, pull back the hammer, and let them look at the sky when the recoil knocked them over.


Jerry, you've shown yourself to be an intelligent and reasonable human being. But I think you need to take a good long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why you felt a need to teach a 3-year old to shoot a gun. That's a very poor decision and you know it. I support children learning how to fire a gun...when they have the physical and mental capacity to do so. My nephew is 3, and it is beyond absurd to imagine him firing a gun. Instead of justifying your decision, take the high road and admit you should have waited a few more years.



You should look in a mirror and ask yourself what gives you the right to question me and my motives for training my kids to know what a firearm can do and why you don't play with one.
So I suggest you back off with your sanctimonious comments.
There is no need to justify my decisions in this matter as it will be for you to justify why you didn't think before you decided to make that post.
Take your high road and admit you were wrong about not reading the post and thinking about the benefit of
teaching a child why you don't point a gun at someone, why you don't touch a gun unless an adult is helping you with it, and especially what happens to people when shot with a firearm.

Chew on that for a while, and I'll wait for your apology.

 

____________________
All photos posted of family, friends, and places, including those of historic ABB value, by this poster are copyrighted by the poster, or posted by permission of the copywriter.
None of those photos may be reproduced for commercial gain.

 
<<  1    2    3  >>  


Powered by XForum 1.81.1 by Trollix Software

Privacy | Terms of Service | Report Infringement | Personal Data Management | Contact Us
The ALLMAN BROTHERS BAND name, The ALLMAN BROTHERS name, likenesses, logos, mushroom design and peach truck are all registered trademarks of THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. whose rights are specifically reserved. Any artwork, visual, or audio representations used on this web site CONTAINING ANY REGISTERED TRADEMARKS are under license from The ABB MERCHANDISING CO., INC. A REVOCABLE, GRATIS LICENSE IS GRANTED TO ALL REGISTERED PEACH CORP MEMBERS FOR The DOWNLOADING OF ONE COPY FOR PERSONAL USE ONLY. ANY DISTRIBUTION OR REPRODUCTION OF THE TRADEMARKS CONTAINED HEREIN ARE PROHIBITED AND ARE SPECIFICALLY RESERVED BY THE ABB MERCHANDISING CO.,INC.
site by Hittin' the Web Group with www.experiencewasabi3d.com