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Author: Subject: IRAN

Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/9/2012 at 10:40 AM
How the war may begin.

We already have the aged out boat the USS Enterprise in the Persian Gulf with American troops on it. Israel has their Dolphin submarines, if they covertly blow it up it can be blamed on Iran, starting the war. Submarines to blow up an aircraft carrier? It is powered by 8 nuclear reactors. Interesting scenario. How realistic is it that this could happen and when?

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is coming to the General Assembly of the United Nations soon, and he will definitely have something to say about the sanctions we have upon his country. This will not be met with objective ears. As in the past, most the US allied nations walk out upon his addresses.

So after the meeting when the press starts to ask those troublesome questions about, well President Ahmadinejad said ..... being that it will be close to election time, neither the Republicans or Democrats wants to look bad, so either before or shortly after the election the way to drum up support would be to unify people with a war. Could be then, could be later.

You can follow the meetins live via webcast.

18 September 2012, at 3 p.m. - Opening of the 67th session at United Nations Headquarters in New York

24 September 2012 - High-level meeting on the rule of law

25 September 2012, at 10 a.m. - Opening of the general debate

21-24 and 26-27 September: General Debate

We ought to watch these sessions.

36. The situation in the Middle East (resolutions 66/18 and 66/19).
37. Question of Palestine (resolutions 66/14 to 66/17).
38. The situation in Afghanistan (resolution 66/13).

46. The situation of democracy and human rights in Haiti (resolution 58/316).3

47. Armed Israeli aggression against the Iraqi nuclear installations and its grave
consequences for the established international system concerning the peaceful
uses of nuclear energy, the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and
international peace and security (resolution 58/316).3

48. Consequences of the Iraqi occupation of and aggression against Kuwait
(resolution 58/316).3

49. University for Peace (resolution 64/83).

50. Effects of atomic radiation (resolution 66/70).

51. International cooperation in the peaceful uses of outer space

57. Economic and other activities which affect the interests of the peoples of the
Non-Self-Governing Territories (resolution 66/83).

58. Implementation of the Declaration on the Granting of Independence to
Colonial Countries and Peoples by the specialized agencies and the
international institutions associated with the United Nations (resolution 66/84).

59. Offers by Member States of study and training facilities for inhabitants of
Non-Self-Governing Territories (resolution 66/85).

72. Report of the International Court of Justice (rule 13 (b)).

(aa) Follow-up to the advisory opinion of the International Court of Justice on
the Legality of the Threat or Use of Nuclear Weapons (resolution 66/46);

(bb) The illicit trade in small arms and light weapons in all its aspects
(resolution 66/47);

(cc) Reducing nuclear danger (resolution 66/48);

(dd) Measures to prevent terrorists from acquiring weapons of mass
destruction (resolution 66/50);

(ee) Nuclear disarmament (resolution 66/51);

(ff) Missiles (decision 66/516).

98. The risk of nuclear proliferation in the Middle East (resolution 66/61).

159. Financing of the United Nations peacekeeping forces in the Middle East:1
(a) United Nations Disengagement Observer Force;
(b) United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon.
160. Financing of the United Nations Mission in South Sudan.2
161. Financing of the United Nations Mission in the Sudan.2

[Edited on 9/9/2012 by gina]


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/9/2012 at 11:08 AM
And yes, the same as last year, people are already complaining that Iranian President Ahmadinejad plans to stay at the Warwick Hotel with his entourage of 70 people. Some Americans say that he should just stay at the Iranian Mission, etc. etc.

Back at home in Iran, they have no let down their guard for the ability to defend their own country. Their Meshkat cruise missiles have submarine, ground, air launched capabilities and can be fired from warplanes also. This is an additional to their much feared Sunburn missiles.

[Edited on 9/9/2012 by gina]


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/9/2012 at 11:20 AM
News folks and everyone else can follow along with what is going on also here:


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Maximum Peach

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  posted on 9/9/2012 at 12:22 PM

Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/9/2012 at 04:24 PM
I don't know which video was the most disturbing, but BrerRabbit put some nasty noise in my head.


Hittin' The Web::Hugh Duty Memorial Giveaway has begun!

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Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/22/2012 at 11:18 PM
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad arrived in NYC Sept. 21 to attend the United Nations sessions. He will speak on Wednesday 9.26.12.

It is an interesting year because the US will be asking for action to be taken against Iran for it’s position against Israel. Last year President Ahmadinejad gave a speech that the US delegation walked out on. Most news organizations did not provide the entire text of his speech, because if they did, the world would have questions to think about. He, in fact posed several questions. If the questions were answered, they portray the US as a nation that goes around the world seeking to occupy and dominate other nations under the precept of helping to liberate their peoples and introduce the doctrines of democracy into their worlds. The methodology of delivering help has been thru wars.

Last year he brought up facts which make many uncomfortable. pt-317114?page=1

“Approximately, three billion people of the world live on less than 2.5 dollars a day, and over a billion people live without having even one sufficient meal on a daily basis. Forty-percent of the poorest world populations only share five percent of the global income, while twenty percent of the richest people share seventy-five percent of the total global income.

More than twenty thousand innocent and destitute children die every day in the world because of poverty. In the United States, eighty percent of financial resources are controlled by ten percent of its population, while only twenty percent of these resources belong to the ninety percent of the population.”

Remark: These notions are the thrust behind the Occupy Wall Street movement, the 99%, the have nots. These are questions he asked last year at the UN General Assembly.

“Who abducted forcefully tens of millions of people from their homes in Africa and other regions of the world during the dark period of slavery, making them a victim of their materialistic greed?

Who imposed colonialism for over four centuries upon this world?

Who occupied lands and massively plundered resources of other nations, destroyed talents, and alienated languages, cultures and identities of nations?

Who triggered the first and second world wars, that left seventy millions killed and hundreds of millions injured or homeless. Who created the wars in Korean peninsula and in Vietnam?

Who imposed, through deceits and hypocrisy, the Zionism and over sixty years of war, homelessness, terror and mass murder on the Palestinian people and on countries of the region?

Who imposed and supported for decades military dictatorship and totalitarian regimes on Asian, African, and Latin American nations?

Who used nuclear bomb against defenseless people, and stockpiled thousands of warheads in their arsenals?

Whose economies rely on waging wars and selling arms?

Who provoked and encouraged Saddam Hussein to invade and impose an eight-year war on Iran, and who assisted and equipped him to deploy chemical weapons against our cities and our people?

Who used the mysterious September 11 incident as a pretext to attack Afghanistan and Iraq , killing, injuring, and displacing millions in two countries with the ultimate goal of bringing into its domination the Middle East and its oil resources?

Who nullified the Breton Woods system by printing trillions of dollars without the backing of gold reserves or equivalent currency?

A move that triggered inflation worldwide and was intended to prey on the economic gains of other nations?

Which country's military spending exceeds annually a thousand billion dollars, more than the military budgets of all countries of the world combined?

Which governments are the most indebted ones in the world?

Who dominates the policy-making establishments of the world economy?

Who are responsible for the world economic recession, and are imposing the consequences on America, Europe and the world in general?

Which governments are always ready to drop thousands of bombs on other countries, but ponder and hesitate to provide aid to famine-stricken people in Somalia or in other places?

Who are the ones dominating the Security Council which is ostensibly responsible for safeguarding the international security?

Do these arrogant powers really have the competence and ability to run or govern the world?

Is it acceptable that they call themselves the sole defender of freedom, democracy, and human rights, while they militarily attack and occupy other countries?

Can the flower of democracy blossom from NATO's missiles, bombs and guns?

If only half of military expenditures of the United States and its allies in NATO was shifted to help solve the economic problems in their own countries, would they be witnessing any symptom of the economic crisis?

What would happen, if the same amount was allocated to poor nations?

What is the justification for the presence of hundreds of US military and intelligence bases in different parts of the world, including 268 bases in Germany, 124 in Japan, 87 in South Korea, 83 in Italy, 45 in the United Kingdom, and 21 in Portugal? Does this mean anything other than military occupation?

Don't the bombs deployed in the said bases undermine the security of other nations?

Oppressed nations have no hope to restore or protect their legitimate rights against these powers. These powers seek their progress, prosperity and dignity through imposing poverty, humiliation and annihilation to others. They consider themselves superior to others, enjoying special privileges and concessions. They have no respect for others and easily violate the rights of all nations and governments.

They proclaim themselves as the indisputable custodians of all governments and nations through intimidation, recourse to threat and force, and abuse the international mechanisms. They simply break all the internationally recognized regulations. They insist on imposing their lifestyle and beliefs on others. They officially support racism. They weaken countries through military intervention, and destroy their infrastructures, in order to plunder their resources by making them all the more dependent.

All cultures, identities, lives, values and wealth of nations, women, youth, families as well as the wealth of nations are sacrificed to their imperialistic tendencies and their inclination to enslave and captivate others.

Hypocrisy and deceit are allowed in order to secure their interests and imperialistic goals. Drug- trafficking and killing of innocent human beings are also allowed in pursuit of such diabolic goals. Despite NATO's presence in the occupied Afghanistan, there has been a dramatic increase in the production of illicit drugs there.

They tolerate no question or criticism, and instead of presenting a reason for their violations, they always put themselves in the position of a claimant. By using their imperialistic media network which is under the influence of colonialism they threaten anyone who questions the Holocaust and the September 11 event with sanctions and military action.

Last year, when the need to form a fact-finding team to undertake a thorough investigation concerning the hidden elements involved in September 11 incident was brought up; an idea also endorsed by all independent governments and nations as well as by the majority in the United States, my country and myself came under pressure and threat by the government of the United States.

Instead of assigning a fact-finding team, they killed the main perpetrator and threw his body into the sea. Would it not have been reasonable to bring to justice and openly bring to trial the main perpetrator of the incident in order to identify the elements behind the safe space provided for the invading aircraft to attack the twin world trade towers?

Why should it not have been allowed to bring him to trial to help recognize those who launched terrorist groups and brought wars and other miseries into the region? Is there any classified information that must be kept secret?

Real freedom, justice dignity, well being, and lasting security are the rights of all nations. These values can neither be achieved by reliance on the current inefficient system of world governance, nor through the invasion of the world by arrogant powers and the gun barrels of NATO forces.”

"I would like to reiterate again my proposal. I am sure that through international cooperation, diligence and efforts by committed world leaders and governments and through insisting on the realization of justice and the support of all other nations, we can expedite the building of a common bright future.

This movement is certainly on its rightful path of creation, ensuring a promising future for humanity. A future that will be built when humanity initiates to trend the path of the divine prophets and the righteous under the leadership of Imam al-Mahdi, the Ultimate Savior of mankind and the inheritor to all divine messengers and leaders and to the pure generation of our great Prophet.

The creation of a supreme and ideal society with the arrival of a perfect human being who is a true and sincere lover of all human beings, is the guaranteed promise of Allah.

He will come alongside with Jesus Christ to lead the freedom and justice lovers to eradicate tyranny and discrimination, and promote knowledge, peace, justice freedom and love across the world. He will present to every single individual all the beauties of the world and all good things which bring happiness for humankind.

Today nations have been awakened. With the increase in public awareness,they no longer succumb to oppressions and discriminations. Our great nation stands ready to join hands with other nations to march on this beautiful path in harmony and in line with the shared aspirations of mankind.

Let us salute love, freedom, justice, wisdom, and the bright future that awaits humankind.”

Remarks: The US did not want to answer or listen to the questions President Ahmadinejad brought up, questioning the US’s ongoing mission to liberate all the Islamic countries and bring democracy and secular law to their shores. He is meeting with the group of NAM countries which are 120 nations.

He will be meeting with many of the delegates from the NAM nations, the meeting of the group was held in Tehran Aug 26-31, 2012. At that meeting a resolution was passed that the NAM countries were entitled to have nuclear weapons for peaceful purposes. ons-for-peaceful-purpose-inseparable-rights-of-nation-nam.pdf s-nuclear-energy/80313111 57-6c74aae7f75f

The organizational structure of NAM is based on these concepts.

Respect for fundamental human rights and for the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations.

Respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all nations.

Recognition of the movements for national independence.

Recognition of the equality of all races and of the equality of all nations, large and small.

Abstention from intervention or interference in the internal affairs of another country.

Respect for the right of each nation to defend itself singly or collectively, in conformity with the Charter of the United Nations.

Refraining from acts or threats of aggression or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any country.

Settlement of all international disputes by peaceful means, in conformity with the Charter of the United Nations.

Promotion of mutual interests and co-operation.

Respect for justice and international obligations.

Remark: The only way to prevent nuclear war is for ALL nations to agree to a non proliferation treaty so that NOBODY has nukes. Could the world trust other countries? No, but if each one reduced it's nuclear stockpile with an independent organization being able to go any time, at will and conduct random inspections, it might be possible to reduce the risk of nuclear war. Will this happen? No. Not according to prophecy. (even one third of devout Muslims will be destroyed thru nuclear war)

The US denied visas to 20 Iranian officials with President Ahmadinejad's delegation, most notably denied were Mohammad Shaikhan, in charge of communications and information, and Mohammad Jafar Behdad, in charge of political affairs.

He will also be meeting with the Occupy Wall Street protesters while he is here. ent-ahmadinejad-to-meet-wall-street-movement-activists-in-ny/ 24715849.html
There will be ads appearing on NYC subways next week which say "“In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man Support Israel Defeat Jihad”

This is a really stupid idea. In a nation that espouses religious tolerance and freedom for all religions, it is sanctimoniously wrong and taking a stance of provacatuer. Jihad means striving to live in peace and harmony with everyone. True Islam is not bullying anyone into compliance, it is stated in the Quran that there must be no compulsion in religion.

Can Israel claim that only they have the proper faith and religion to the exclusion of other religions and nations in the world? How arrogant that is. Today’s Israel is not exemplifying the principles of justice set forth in the Torah, as witnessed with the daily atrocities being committed in the land of Palestine and other bordering nations (ie the Rafah border with Egypt). Zionism is not the same as the beliefs of the true people of Israel.

In the US we forced Judge Roy Moore in Alabama to remove the Ten Commandments from his courtroom, did not want to prejudice any jury to have them thinking along God’s way of thinking related to laws. Judge Moore was punished for fighting for the right to display the Ten Commandments. He wrote a poem to express his feelings, Judge Moore is doing his own jihad.

The only hope we have for not being brought into world war (whether we start it covertly, overtly or answer it in retaliation) is to adopt a stance of not intervening in the affairs of other nations. Will we ever do that? No. Prophecy says that also.

[Edited on 9/23/2012 by gina]


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/22/2012 at 11:46 PM
And yes, ironically, this year President Ahmadinejad's speech will be on Yom Kippur. The Holy day of atonement, which was commanded as a lasting ordinance, an annual holiday to be observed. (one of the seven holidays the Jews were given as holidays they must observe).

"Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God."- Leviticus 23:27-28

On this day, a Muslim will point out inequities perpetuated against other people's by the Jewish state that is in existence today. peech-on-yom-kippur/

What we tend to forget is that when Jesus does come back to fix things, again he will be a Jew, given the task of uniting the Muslims, Christians and Jews, unfortunately, the anti-Christ will be in power and sitting in the Temple in Jerusalem, ruling the world, as it's new head, the head of a one world order, the new world order.

Everything leading up to that is being played out in the world arena of politics and daily life. You need only to know and observe. The prophecies were handed down thousands of years ago, we were even told of the war that would happen between Israel and Palestine, and the countries were named and they will be in modern day times Russia, China and the entire Muslim world versus the US, Israel, and the NATO allied nations. In these perilous times, we would do well to standback and reflect on these things, rather than trying to take sides, blame and threaten any other countries for their ideas, stance on world issues.


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 01:39 AM
This is from the NAM conference this past Aug 26-31.

Last May 5 the idea that a hotline could be set up between Iran and the US was raised. President Ahmadinejad and Admiral Mike Mullen thought it was a good idea. I think so too. 525.html

NEW YORK -- Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says he would welcome a "hotline" with the United States or any other way to head off conflict in the Persian Gulf.

He told a news conference Friday that there was no reason for any clashes and "any tool that can prevent clashes or potential conflict, we welcome that tool."

Ahmadinejad said "some will pretend that energy security is at risk," but if NATO, British and U.S. forces leave the Persian Gulf and the Gulf of Oman, Iran will "guarantee" shipping routes and security for oil and other energy supplies.

"I don't think there is a need for any confrontation or potential clashes, but I think the long-term solution is for the foreign forces to leave the Persian Gulf," Ahmadinejad said. "There is no need in the Persian Gulf for the presence of the NATO force. Nations of the region are fully capable of establishing and providing their own security."

There is no formal proposal for such a hotline, but several U.S. military officials have mused publicly about establishing an emergency contact system to prevent misunderstandings between U.S. Navy ships and planes and an increasingly assertive Iranian military.

There have been several close calls over the past year between small, fast Iranian boats that have appeared to charge or harass U.S. vessels, and Iranian planes that zip too close to U.S. ships and planes.

Military officials say some of the Iranian ships are behaving more aggressively than the largely professional Iranian Navy, and U.S. officials suspect that many belong to the unpredictable Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.

Both nations claim patrol rights in the Persian Gulf.

The hotline, modeled on the old emergency contact line between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, would let a U.S. commander quickly call a senior Iranian military official for clarification of Iranian motives, or to complain.

Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a university audience last week that he is concerned by the lack of communication between the U.S. and Iranian militaries – a breach that dates to the severing of diplomatic ties three decades ago.

"Even in the darkest days of the Cold War, U.S. officials could still talk with the Soviets," Mullen said at the University of Miami.


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 01:49 AM
This was his speech from 2010 regarding Non Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons. (and video) at-the-united-nations-transcript/

Now that was 2010. The world changed so much in two years that at the NAM conference he just held this past August, the other NAM nation members AGREED that their nations be allowed to keep nuclear weapons just to keep the peace. They have all been threatened so much for so long, they now believe they have to have them as a deterrant to protect themselves. And the threats are still coming.

This was from August 2012. Israel gave a deadline to the US that September is the deadline for the US to say that it will take military action against Iran, pre-emptively. Israel also says they will do it before our elections if necessary. This is amazing to me because the people of the US did not sign on to allow our country to start a war in the Middle East, nor have our legislators voted on the matter yet Israel is on OUR nuclear warhead launch system. Meaning if they start it, our nukes will back them up.

Sept. 25 is the day before President Ahmadinejad speaks to the UN, it is Yom Kippur, what will the US response be?

[Edited on 9/23/2012 by gina]


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 05:14 PM
Israel is only delivering ultimatums is because they know they have the US's unwavering support. Plus they are on our nuclear missle launch system, so if they launch their own missiles and Iran or anyone else responds, our missiles are gonna fly. The status that they have on our missile launch system is Launch On Warning. I don't even think Congress voted on this, it was just quietly done.

Iranian President Ahmadinejad does hate Israel and wants it to not be in existence as a ruling state because he is a Muslim and most Muslims do not believe Israel has a right to land that they are living on.

If people study the history of the wars and who held those lands, they will see how the lands have changed hands over the centuries.

My own opinion is all the people have a right to live in the region, practice their respective religions, the way Israel has been running things is very abusive and horrible towards the Palestinians, unless you read the Palestinian news reports you will not be aware of any of it. Itis also true most Palestinians really do not want the Israeli's living on what they believe is their lands, they just have not had the power to be successful with their intifada. A world wide war could change the power dynamic because Israel is surrounded by Muslim nations all of which woud be called into the war since their borders would be effected.

This is an interesting video from Iranian President Ahmadinejad where he speaks about his belief that his country is entitled to have nuclear energy and he also speaks about the Syrian situation. -iran-nuclear-programme-houla-massacre


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 06:21 PM
Charlie, I do not know about where the missiles are going to go to, I think there are preset codes and destinaions. But we do know where some of them will be launched from.

"The joint US-Israel radar exercise Friday was a target-only tracking test over the Mediterranean. An attack on Israel was simulated by a Rafael Blue Sparrow 2 target missile launched from an F-15 fighter jet coming in from the east – the presumed direction of Iranian and Syrian missile strikes. The incoming missile was detected and tracked by two US AN/TPY-2 X-band stations and Israel’s Super Green Pine radar.

One of the American stations is located on Mount Keren opposite the Egyptian border in southern Israel; the other at a Turkish air base in the southeastern town of Kurecik.

US and Israeli officials said the joint test was successful but offered no further information about the order in which the three stations sighted the attacking “missile” or how they shared the data".

Remarks: The US and Israel have already practiced scenarios.

Launch on Warning Status is bad.

"One of the most likely causes of an unintended nuclear war is "launch on warning" (LoW) -- the policy of launching a retaliatory nuclear strike while the opponent's missiles or warheads are believed to be in flight, but before any detonation from the perceived attack has occurred (1). Each side has over 2,000 nuclear warheads ready to launch before the incoming rockets have arrived -- enough to destroy either USA or Russia many times over. Once launched, they cannot be recalled or neutralized."

Now the article refers to the US and Russia, but the point has been made, Israel is on our Missile Launch system with Launch On Warning Status. rning.htm



Israel was recently connected to an American satellite system that is
capable of providing instant notification of ground-to-ground missile
launches, YEDIOT AHARONOT reported.

At the beginning of the Gulf War, the Pentagon used the satellite system
to relay notification of Scud launches to Israel. By the end of the war, the
U.S. had provided Israel equipment enabling direct notification of the
launches, but it was later returned.

The new system connects the Israel Air Force directly to the U.S. Missile
Warning Center in Colorado, and will provide instantaneous warning of
missile launches.

[Edited on 9/23/2012 by gina]


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 06:41 PM

Adding to the problem is that Israel keeps saying it does not have to tell the US it has launched it's missiles. They will just launch, and ours will automatically go to the predesignated targets. "a first strike by one nation could destroy the ground launch facilities of the retaliating nation."

"The first-strike nation can use a technique called X-ray pin-down to delay a retaliatory response. This technique involves a barrage of submarine-based missiles fired from close range in a "depressed trajectory" mode that reaches its targets in minutes. The warheads would be set to explode every minute or so at high altitudes, which significantly disrupts the ability of the attacked nation to successfully launch its own ICBMs.[6] Additionally, submarines could launch a depressed-trajectory strike against the capital of the targeted country, in an effort to destroy its command structure before any retaliatory decision could be made. This is known as a decapitation strike.[

The deployment of submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) decreases the strategic need for a launch on warning strategy. These submarines are capable of hiding in the ocean during an attack, thus ensuring that a second-strike can be made even if the attacked country is unable to launch a land-based counterstrike"

Remarks: It's all about mass casualties and death, destroying a country's infastructure so that they cannot fight back. Nothing dignified about war these days.


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 06:50 PM
In regards to the situation on the ground, there would be war there too, not just from the nukes flying overhead. htm

Voice of America January 3, 2011

U.S. diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks reveal that Israel believes it would have 10-12 minutes' warning should Iran launch a rocket attack against the country.

The Norwegian daily Aftenposten published a cable Monday from the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv that discusses a Nov 15, 2009 meeting between an American congressional delegation and Israel's military chief.

According to the daily, Gabi Ashkenazi told the delegation that Iran has 300 Shihab missiles that could reach Israel. He added that Israel's biggest threats were the Iranian-backed Hamas militant group in the Gaza Strip and Hezbollah in Lebanon, which has more than 40,000 rockets that can reach almost any point in Israel.

In the cable, Ashkenazi is quoted as saying Israel was preparing its army for a major war in the Middle East. He added that the Israeli army sends out unmanned planes over Lebanon to identify potential targets.

The Israeli defense chief said Israel is not able to protect its entire population despite its anti-missile defense systems. He said 1 million Israelis could be exposed to missiles that cannot be fought from the air.

Remarks: That is how everyone else gets pulled into the war. Israel will attack Palestine and Gaza and Lebanon. The Rafah crossing in Israel borders with Egypt, Libya, Algeria and the other countries are next to Egypt. Jordan and Turkey will be involved also due to their geographic locations. The entire Middle East and Arab world goes to war, with the US launching missiles since Israel is on our missile launch system.


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 06:56 PM
Just in case you think, well Iran doesn't have any long range missiles that could hit the US mainland, well, yes they do, courtesy of China who sold them to them. to-launch-at-u-s-and-israel/

In December it emerged that China sold Iran, for $11 billion, advanced DF-31 ICBMs which are capable of reaching U.S. soil with nuclear warheads. North Korean engineers are helping to get the missile system up and running. sidestep-sanctions-thanks-to-assist-from-north/

They then turned to China, which delivered to Iran 11 Dong Feng 3A missiles whose range exceeds 1,600 miles.

Remarks: So they have their own missiles, plus some long range missiles from China, and China says they will support Iran if they are attacked, so we will be at war with China, you know those folks who fund our economy and lend us money to function.

Yep the stakes are very high.


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 07:33 PM
By the way, the Mahdi who is the Guided One for the Muslims, who shall come before the anti-Christ, and before Jesus also. The Mahdi will probably be from Jordan. (though he will emerge from Syria).

The world will not come to pass until a man from among my family, whose name will be my name, rules over the Arabs. (Tirmidhi Sahih, Vol. 9, P. 74; Abu Dawud, Sahih, Vol. 5, P. 207; also narrated by Ali b. Abi Talib, Abu Sa'id, Umm Salma, Abu Hurayra, quoted by Idara Dawat-o-Irshad, "Identification of the Prophesied Imam Mahdi")

According to the hadiths, just prior to the emergence of Al-Mahdi, "Christian rule will be dominant". (Note that Muslims often equate Western with Christian). A descendent of Abu Sufyan (a Meccan who converted to Islam under threat of beheading) is supposed to emerge in Syria (Sham) and kill many of Muhammad's descendents and rule over Syria and Egypt.

Fatimah, Ali's wife, was the only child of Muhammad to have descendents, as the rest of Muhammad's children either died young or did not have offsprings. Thus, al-Mahdi is supposed to be a descendent of Fatimah and Ali. Muhammad's descendants are numerous. The royal family of Jordan, for example, are descended from Hasan, eldest son of Fatimah and Ali.

Once Assad is removed, a new ruler will emerge and you shall see the prophecy come to pass. There will be more wars, it was all prophecied 1400 years ago.

These are the times we are living in.

[Edited on 9/24/2012 by gina]


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/23/2012 at 07:50 PM
As to the range of the missiles and where they could hit, here is a chart, if anything was launched from North Korea (and they side with Iran). They tested some of theirs in March this year.


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/26/2012 at 06:49 PM
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Speech today at the United Nations.

In the name of God, the compassionate, all praise belong to Allah, the lord of the world, and may peace and blessings be upon the greatest and trustworthy prophet and his progeny. He has chosen companions and upon all the divine messengers. God hastens the emergence of your chosen beloved, grant him good health and victory, make us his best companions and all those who attest to his rightfulness.

Mr. President, Excellencies, ladies and gentlemen, I thank the almighty God for having once more the chance to participate in this meeting. We have gathered here to ponder and work together for building a better life for the entire human community and for our nations.

Coming from Iran, the land of glory and beauty, the land of knowledge, culture, wisdom and morality, the cradle of philosophy and mysticism, the land of compassion and light, the land of scientists, scholars, philosophers, masters of literature and writers, the land of Ferdosi, Hafez, Mulana, Hayyam and Shariyar.

I represent a great and proud nation that is the founder of human civilization and an inheritor of respected universal values.

I represent a conscious nation which is dedicated to the cause of freedom, peace and compassion; a nation that has experienced the agony and bitter times of the aggressions and imposed wars, and profoundly values the blessings of peace and stability.

I am now here for the eighth time in the eighth year of my service to my noble people; in this august assembly of peoples and brothers from across the world, to show to the world that my noble nation, like its brilliant past, has a global vision and welcomes any effort intended to provide and promote peace and stability and tranquility which can only be realized through harmony, cooperation and joint management of the world.

I am here to voice the divine and humanitarian message of learned men and women of my country, to you and to the whole world, a message that Iran’s great orator and poet Saadi, presented to humanity in his eternal poetry. Human beings are members of a whole in creation of one essence and soul. If one member is afflicted with pain, other members uneasily remain.

I have talked in the past 7 years about the current challenges, solutions and prospects of the future world. And today, I want to raise and discuss such issues from a different perspective. Thousands of years have passed since children of Adam, peace be upon him, started to settle down in various parts of Earth.

Peoples of different colors, inclinations, languages, customs and traditions to fulfill their aspirations to build a noble society for a most beautiful life blessed with lasting peace, security and happiness.

Despite all efforts made by righteous people and justice-seekers and the sufferings and pains endured by masses of people in the quest to achieve happiness and victory, the history of mankind, except in rare cases, is marked with unfulfilled dreams and failures.

Imagine for a moment had there been no egoism, distrust, malicious behavior and dictatorships, with no one violating the rights of others, had humanitarian values been viewed as the criterion for social dignity in place of affluence and consumerism; had humanity not experienced the dark age of medieval period and centers of powers not hindered the flourishing of knowledge and constructive thoughts; had the wars of crusades ensuing period of slavery and colonialism not happened; and had the inheritors of these dark periods followed a course on the premises of humanitarian principles; had the First and Second World Wars in Europe, the wars in Korea, Vietnam, Africa, Latin America and in the Balkans not happened; and if instead of the occupation of Palestine and imposition of a fake government, displacement and genocide of millions of people around the globe.

If the tragic incident of September 11, and the military actions against Afghanistan and Iraq that left millions killed and homeless had not happened, and if instead of killing and throwing the culprit into the sea without trial or without informing the world and the people of America.

An independent fact finding team had been informed to make the general public aware of the truth behind the incident, and to prepare for bring him to justice the perpetrators has extremism or terrorism not been used to secure political goals; had the [inaudible] had been heard in [inaudible] and military expenditures been used to promote well being and enmity among nations; had the drum of ethnic, religious, or racial conflict, not been beaten.

And if differences had not been used for the purpose of advancing political agendas had the right to criticize the hegemonic policies and actions of the world Zionism been recognized to allow the world media to freely report and shed light on realities instead of taking deceitful gestures of backing freedom bent on offending the sanctities and now sacred beliefs of human beings and divine messengers who as the purest and most compassionate human beings are the gift of the Almighty to humanity.

Had the security council, nothing under the domination or the limited number of government does disabling the United Nations to carry out its responsibilities on a just and equitable basis. If the international economic institution has not yet under pressure and been allowed to perform the duties and functions by using their expertise based on fairness and justice; had the world’s capitalists not weakened or victimized the economies of nations in order to make up for their own mistakes.

If integrity and honesty have not prevailed on the international relations and all nations and government were treated equally and justly in the global effort to build and expand happiness for the entire mankind, and if there’s a — other unfavorable situation had not occurred in human life.

Imagine how beautiful and pleasant our lives and how lovely the history of mankind would have been. Let us take a look at the world’s situation today.

A, the economic situation. Poverty is on the rise and the gap is widening between the rich and the poor. Total for in debt of $18 million industrial countries has exceeded $63 million whilst the repayment of half of this amount is sufficient to eradicate poverty in the world.
The economy is dependent on consumerism and exploitation of people only serve the interest of the limited number of countries. Creation of worthless paper assets by using influence and control over the world’s economic centers constitutes the greatest abuse of history and is considered a major contributor to global economic crisis.

It has been reported that only 33 (inaudible) were printed by one government alone. Development planning, based on a capitalist economy that runs in a vicious circle triggers unhealthy and devastating competitions and it is a fatal practice.

B, the cultural situation. From the standpoint of the politicians who control the world power centers, concepts such as moral principles, purity, honesty, integrity, compassion and self- sacrifice are rejected as defunct and outdated notions and an impediment to the accomplishment of their goals. They openly talk about their disbelief in the relevance of ethics to the political and social affairs.

Pure and indigenous cultures as the product of centuries-old efforts of nations, the common denominator reflecting human profound feeling and love toward beauty and the force which breeds diversity, cultural vividness and social dynamism are under constant attacks and susceptible to extinction.

A specific lifestyle devoid of individual social identity has been imposed on nations by organized and systematic disruption and humiliation of identities.

Family, as the noblest institution of societies and a center emanating love and humanity, has been seriously weakened, and its destructive role is under decline.

Women’s sublime role and personality as a heavenly being, a manifestation of the divine image and beauty and the main pillar of every society has been damaged and abused by the powerful and the wealthy.

The human soul has become frustrated and the essence of humankind humiliated and suppressed.

C, political and security situation. Unilateralism, application of double standards, and imposition of wars, instability and occupation to ensure economic interests and expand dominance over sensitive centers of the world have served to be the order of the day. Arms race and intimidation by nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction by the hegemonic powers have become prevalent.

Testing new generations of ultra modern weaponry and the pledge to disclose these armaments in due time is now being used as new language of threats against nations to coerce them into accepting a new era of hegemony. Continued threats by the uncivilized

Zionists to resort to a military action against our great nation is a clear example of this bitter reality.

A state of mistrust has cast its shadow on the international relations whilst there is no trust that – or just authority to help resolve world conflicts. No one feels secure or safe, even those who have a stockpile, thousands of atomic bombs and other arms in their arsenals.
D, the environmental situation. The environment, as a commonwealth and heritage of the entire humankind and a constant guarantor of man’s survival, has been seriously damaged and devastated as a result of irresponsible and excessive use of resources, particularly by capitalists across the world, a situation that has caused massive drought, flood and pollutions and inflicting irrevocable damage and jeopardizing seriously human life on Earth.
Dear colleagues, despite advances in scientific knowledge and technology, the aspirations of Adam’s children have not yet been fulfilled. Does anybody believe that continuation of the current order is capable of bringing happiness for human society? Today everyone is discontent and disappointed with the current international order.

Dear colleagues, human beings do not deserve to be under continual sufferings of the present situation. God of wisdom and compassion, who loves all human beings, has not ordained such a destiny for mankind. He has ordered human as the supreme creature to make the best and most beautiful life on Earth, along with justice, love and dignity.

We must therefore think of a solution. Who is responsible for all these sufferings and failures? Some people try to justify that everything is normal and is a reflection of divine will, putting the blame on nations as responsible for all prevalent vices and evils.

They are of the opinion that it is the nations that succumb to discrimination and tyranny, it is the nations that surrender to dictatorship and greed, it is the nations that accept the hegemony of arrogant and expansionist powers, it is the nations that are influenced by the (inaudible) of powers and most all vices in our world are the result of their passive attitudes with the inclination to live under the supremacy of the world powers.

These are the arguments raised by those who tend to blame nations for the unfavorable conditions prevailing in the world with the intention to justify the attitudes and destructive behaviors of the ruling minority.

These claims, supposedly authentic, cannot in any way justify continuation of the present oppressive international order. Indeed, poverty is imposed on nations and powers, ambitions and goals are pursued either through deceits or resort to force.

To justify their inhuman actions, they propagate the theory based on the survival of the fittest, while in principle most governments and nations of justice-seeking people are humble and submissive in the face of right and are after fostering dignity, prosperity and constructive interactions.

Masses of people never want to expand their territories, nor do they seek to obtain legendary wealth. They have no disputes among themselves in principles and have never played a role in the creation of any disastrous events in the course of history.

I do not believe that Muslims, Christian, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and others have any problems among themselves or are hostile against each other. They get along together comfortably and live together in an atmosphere of peace and amity. We are all devoted to the cause of justice, purity and law.

The general tendency of nations has always been to accomplish positive common aspirations reflecting exalted divine human beauties and nobilities. The current abysmal situation of the world and the bitter incidents of history are due mainly to the wrong management of the world and the self-proclaimed centers of power who have entrusted themselves to the devil.

The older that is rooted in the anti-human thoughts of slavery and the old and new colonialism are responsible for part of the corruption, ignorance and oppression and discrimination in every corner of the world.

The current world order has certain characteristics, some of which are as follows. It is founded on materialism, and that is why it is in no way bound to moral values. It has been shaped according to selfishness, deception, hatred and animosity. It believes in classification of human beings, humiliation of other nations, trampling upon the rights of others and the abomination.

It seeks to extend its domination by spreading discord and conflicts among ethnic groups and nations. It aims to monopolize power, wealth, science and technology for a limited group. Policies of the world’s main centers of power are based on the principle of domination and the conquering of others.

These centers only seek supremacy and are not in favor of peace and definitely not at the service of the nations. Are we to believe that those who would spend hundreds of millions of dollars on election campaigns have the interests of the people of the world at their hearts? Despite what big political parties claim in the capitalist countries, the money that goes into election campaigns is usually nothing but an investment.

In such countries, people have to vote for parties that only represent a small number of people. The will and views of the masses have the least impact and influence on the big decisions, especially those made about the major domestic and foreign policies in United States and in Europe. Their voices are not heard, even if they constitute 99 percent of the societies.

Human and ethical values are sacrificed in order to win votes and willingness to listen to the demands of the people has become only a tool at a time of election. The current world order is discriminatory and based on injustice.

Distinguished friends and colleagues, what should be done and what is the way out of the current situation? There is no doubt that the world is in need of a new order and a fresh way of thinking, an order in which man is recognized as God’s supreme creature, enjoying material and spiritual qualities and possessing a pure and divine nature filled with a desire to seek justice and truth; an order that aims to revive human dignity and believes in universal happiness and perfection.
Three, an order which is, after peace, lasting security, and welfare for all walks of life around the globe.

Four, an order that is founded upon trust and kindness and brings forth hearts and hands closer to each others. Rulers must love people.

Five, a just and fair order in which everybody is equal before law and in which there is no double standard . Leaders of the world must regard themselves as committed servants of the people, not their superiors.

Seven, authority is a sacred gift from people to their rulers, not a chance to amass power and wealth.

Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen, is it possible to have such an order without having everybody’s contribution to the way the world is run? It is abundantly evident that when all the people and government start to think and commit themselves to the above mentioned principles and become sensitive to the internationally important issues and participate in decision makings, their wishes will find a chance to be materialized.

By raising collective awareness, the seeking of a joint global management becomes more vivid, with the chances of its implementation increased. Today is the day of nations, and their wants will determine the future of the world.

Therefore, together we need to place our trust in God Almighty and stand against the inquisitive minority with all our might so that they become isolated and can no longer decide the destiny of other nations.

Two, believe in the God’s bounty of blessing and mercy, and seek it in the integration and unity of human societies. Governments emerging from the free will of nations must believe in their own ceaseless capabilities and know that they can achieve victory if they vigorously fight the unjust order and defend human rights.

Three, pave the ground for the joint global management by insisting upon justice in all its aspects, strengthen, unity, friendship, and expand economic social, cultural and political interactions in a dependent, specialized organizations.

Four, care about the interests of all the people of the world and join hands to reform the current disruptions of the United Nations with our joint efforts and coordination.
It is necessary to know that the United Nations belongs to all nations. Thus, the existence of discrimination amongst the member is a great insult to all. The existence of discrimination and monopoly in the United Nations is in no way acceptable.

Five, have more coordinated efforts to generate and propagate and firmly establish the language needed for designing the required structures of the joint global management field, because justice, love, freedom and amity.

Participation in global management is the basis of lasting peace, the non-align movement as the second largest trans-regional group after the United Nations held its 16th (ph) summit in Tehran with the motto of joint global management cognizant of the importance of this issue and the shortcomings of the current mismanagements in the emergence of crises and problems afflicting the world today.

During the summit, participating heads of state and representatives of more than 120 countries underscored the necessity of more serious and effective participation of all nations in the global management.

Fortunately, we are now at a historic juncture. On one hand, Marxism is no longer around, and is particularly eliminated from the management systems. And on the other, capitalism is bogged down in a self-made quagmire and it has indeed reached a deadlock and does not seem to be able to come up with any noteworthy solution to the various economic, political, security and cultural problems of the world.

Non-Aligned Movement is proud to once again emphasize the rightfulness of its historic decision to reject the poles of power and the unbridled hegemony ruling the world. On behalf of the members of the Non-Aligned Movement, I would like to invite all countries of the world to play a more active role in making it possible for everybody to contribute to the global decision making processes in the world.

The need to remove the structural barriers and encourage the process of universal participation in global management has never been greater before. The United Nations lacks the efficiency to bring about the required changes.

If this inefficiency persists, nations will lose hope in the global structures to defend their right. If the United Nations is restructured, international interactions and a spirit of collective global cooperation will be tarnished and the standing of the United Nations will be damaged.

The United Nations has been created with the purpose of expanding justice and reinstitution of the universal rights has in practice been engulfed by discrimination, preparing a supportive ground for the domination of a few powerful countries.

Consequently, U.N.’s inefficiency has been on the rise. Moreover, the existent (ph) of the veto right and monopolization of power in the Security Council have made it nearly impossible to defend the rights of the nations.

The issue of the U.N. restructuring is very vital and is a need that has been emphasized time and again by the representatives of nations, a goal that has not yet been accomplished.

I would like to urge the honorable members of the United Nations and his Excellency the secretary general and his colleagues to place this issue high on their agendas and devise and appropriate mechanism to make it happen.

Non-Aligned Movement stands ready to aid the United Nations in this essential endeavor.
Mr. President, friends and dear colleagues, creating peace and lasting security with decent life for all, although a great and historic mission, can be accomplished. The almighty God has not left us alone in this mission and has said that it will surely happen. If it doesn’t happen, then it will be contradictory to his wisdom.

God has promised us a man of kindness, a man who loves people and loves absolute justice, a man who is a perfect human being and is named (inaudible), a man who will come in the company of Jesus Christ and the righteous.

By using the inherent potential of all the worthy men and women of all nations — and I repeat, the inherent potential of all the worthy men and women of all nations, he will lead humanity into achieving its glorious and eternal ideals.

The arrival of the ultimate savior will mark a new beginning, a rebirth and a resurrection. It will be the beginning of peace, lasting security and genuine life. His arrival will be the end of oppression, immorality, poverty, discrimination and the beginning of justice, love and empathy.

He will come and he will cut through ignorance, superstition, prejudice by opening the gates of science and knowledge. He will establish a world (inaudible) of prudence and he will prepare the ground for the collective active and constructive participation of all in the global management.

He will come to grant kindness, hope, freedom and dignity to all humanity as a gift. He will come so mankind will taste the pleasure of being human and being in the company of other humans. He will come so that hands will be joined, hearts will be filled with love, and thoughts will be purified to be at the service of security, welfare, happiness, well being, and peace for all.

He will come to return all children of Adam, irrespective of their skin colors, to their innate origin after a long history of separation and division, linking them to eternal happiness and joy. The arrival of the ultimate savior, Jesus Christ and the righteous will bring about an eternally bright future for mankind, not by force or waging wars, but through thought, awakening and developing kindness in everyone. Their arrival will breed a new life in the cold and frozen hearts and body of the world.

He will bless humanity with a spring that puts an end to our winter of ignorance, poverty and war. Through the tidings of a season of blooming, he puts an end to the winter of ignorance for humanity.

Now, we can see and we can sense the sweet scent and the soulful breeze of the spring — a spring that has just begun and doesn’t belong to a specific race, ethnicity, nation, or region; a spring that will soon reach all the territories in Asia, Europe, Africa and America. He will be the spring of all, the justice-seekers, freedom- lovers and the followers of heavenly prophets. He will be the spring of humanity and the greenery of all ages.

Let us join hands and clear the way for his eventual arrival with empathy and cooperation, in harmony and unity. Let us march on this path to salvation for the thirsty souls of humanity to taste immortal joy and grace. Long live this spring. Long live this spring. And again and again, long live this spring.”

REMARKS: Rather than talk about the war that is to come, he thinks beyond that. After the 7 year war between Israel and Palestine begins, the anti-Christ will rise to and assume power over the world, (at the 3 and one half year mark) after he has done that, then Islamic Mahdi will come, he will be martyred, then Jesus will come, and Jesus will kill and destroy the anti-Christ.

Iranian President Ahmadinejad is thinking about that time when the Islamic Mahdi comes and helps lead the Muslims, and also when Jesus comes, yes the Muslims know Jesus will come, he will come to a mosque in Syria and lead 800 men (who will be with 400 women) on the final jihad. Muslims know more about Jesus than many of their Christian counterparts, and they also know he will rescue the Jews who will be bowing down to the anti-Christ in ignorance and submission.

Islamic prophecy does speak about nuclear war and it will kill most of the believing men, for there to only be 800 left in Syria when the anti-Christ sends 80,000 troops against them tells you the severity of the situation that is to come. Yet President Ahmadinejad is happy because the aftemath for his country will be a return to the blessings originally bestowed upon it, and an end to evil. (regionally and globally too). For the anti-Christ to rise and rule the world, the financial markets have to collapse, then a new one world order will be put into place, one financial system, one govt., one army, one head, the anti-Christ until he is slain in the final jihad.

[Edited on 9/27/2012 by gina]


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/26/2012 at 07:31 PM
Here is a link to some of the meetings from the UN.


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/26/2012 at 07:40 PM
just bomb the bastards




Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/26/2012 at 07:44 PM
A stray rocket from Syria lands in Israel. srael-damascus-official-denies-reports-of-misplaced-army-shelling/

by Aaron Klein

TEL AVIV — A top Syrian government official speaking to KleinOnline denied that a rocket launched from Syria that landed in northern Israeli territory today was misplaced Syrian army firing, as has been widely reported.

“I am not aware of any clashes between the Syrian Army and the rebels taking place so close to the Israeli border,” added the Syrian official. “In any case, the Syrian army does not fire rockets against the rebels.”

The official further claimed that mortars launched from Syria landing in Israel yesterday were unrelated to any fighting between the rebels and the Syrian army.

The official refused to respond when asked whether he believed yesterday’s mortars or today’s rocket were fired at Israel deliberately either by Syrian forces or by jihad groups.

As Israelis celebrated Yom Kippur today, one rocket landed in an open area of the Golan Heights near the Syrian border while several mortars landed yesterday near Kibbutz Elrom in the northern Golan Heights.

Yesterday’s projectiles were widely reported as mortars apparently fired by the Syrian army at the Syrian village of Jubata Al Khashab in response to rebel activity in the area. Today’s rocket was also blamed on misplaced Syrian fire in Israeli media accounts.

A spokesperson for the Israel Defense Forces told KleinOnline the Israeli army is investigating the incidents.

[part of Islamic prophecy is that Damascus would be destroyed in one night; if there begins an incursion fro Syria into Israel, the war could start that way].


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


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  posted on 9/26/2012 at 09:10 PM

Great tune that sums this and many of Gina's topics.


Hey Yankees, you can take your crappy trophy's and shove them right up your asses!


Zen Peach

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  posted on 9/26/2012 at 09:47 PM
It happened 30 years ago on 16 September, 1982, a massacre so awful that people who know about it cannot forget it. The photos are gruesome reminders — charred, decapitated, indecently violated corpses, the smell of rotting flesh, still as foul to those who remember it as when they were recoiling from it all those years ago. For the victims and the handful of survivors, it was a 36-hour holocaust without mercy. It was deliberate, it was planned, and it was overseen. But to this day, the killers have gone unpunished.

Sabra and Chatila

There were international witnesses — doctors, nurses, journalists — who saw the macabre scenes and have tried to tell the world about them in vain ever since. Each act was barbarous enough on its own to warrant fear and loathing. It was human savagery at its worst. Ang Swee Chai was an eyewitness working with the Palestinian Red Crescent Society on the dying and the wounded amongst the dead. What she saw was so unimaginable that the atrocities committed need to be separated from each other even to begin comprehending the viciousness of the crimes.

People tortured. Blackened bodies smelling of roasted flesh from the electric shocks that had convulsed their bodies before their hearts gave out, the wires still tied around their lifeless limbs. People with gouged-out eye-sockets, faces unrecognisable with the gaping holes that had plunged them into darkness before their lives were thankfully ended. Women raped. Not once — but two, three, four times — horribly violated, their legs shamelessly ripped apart with not even the cover of clothing to preserve their dignity at the moment of death.

Children dynamited alive. So many body parts ripped from their tiny torsos that it was hard to know to whom they belonged — just mounds of bloodied limbs amongst the tousled heads of children in pools of blood. Families executed. Blood, blood and more blood sprayed on the walls of homes where whole families had been axed to death in a frenzy or lined up for a more orderly execution.

There were also journalists who were there in the aftermath and who had equally gruesome stories to tell, none of which made the sort of screaming front-page headlines that should have caused lawmakers to demand immediate answers. What they saw led them to write shell-shocked accounts that have vanished into the archives, but are no less disturbing now. These accounts, too, need to be individually absorbed, lest they be lumped together as just the records of the collective dead rather than the systematic torture and killing of individual, innocent human beings.

Women gunned down while cooking in their kitchens. The headless body of a baby in diapers lying next to two dead women. An infant, its tiny legs streaked with blood, shot in the back by a single bullet. Slaughtered babies, their bodies blackened as they decomposed, tossed into rubbish heaps together with Israeli army equipment and empty bottles of whiskey. An old man castrated, with flies thick upon his torn intestines. Children with their throats slashed. Mounds of rotting corpses bloated in the heat — young boys all shot at point-blank range.

And, most numbing of all are the recollections of the survivors whose experiences were so shockingly traumatic that to recall them must have been painful beyond all imaginings. One survivor, Nohad Srour, 35, said “I was carrying my one-year-old baby sister and she was yelling, ‘Mama! Mama!’ and then suddenly nothing. I looked at her and her brain had fallen out of her head and down my arm. I looked at the man who shot us. I’ll never forget his face. Then I felt two bullets pierce my shoulder and finger. I fell. I didn’t lose consciousness, but I pretended to be dead.”

The statistics of those killed vary, but even according to the Israeli military the official count was 700 people killed while Israeli journalist Amnon Kapeliouk puts the figure at 3,500. The Palestinian Red Crescent Society puts the number killed at over 2,000. Regardless of the numbers, they would not and cannot mitigate what are clear crimes against humanity.

Fifteen years later, Robert Fisk, the journalist who had been one of the first on the scene, said “had Palestinians massacred 2,000 Israelis 15 years ago, would anyone doubt that the world’s press and television would be remembering so terrible a deed this morning? Yet this week, not a single newspaper in the United States — or Britain for that matter — has even mentioned the anniversary of Sabra and Chatila.”

Thirty years later it is no different.

* The writer is the founder of Women for Palestine, a Melbourne-based human rights group, and co-founder of Australians for Palestine

REMARKS: This is but one incident that Israel has perpetrated un an unarmed people. There are reasons that other countries hate them and wish they did not exist, but the Council on Foreign Relations doesn't want you to know the things they do.


"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213


Ultimate Peach

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  posted on 9/26/2012 at 10:42 PM
I wrote about the massacre in one of my senior college courses as it related to U.S.-Israeli Intelligence Operations (yes, I included the Levon affair and the attack on the U.S.S. Liberty in that report and presentation among other things). I was subjected to venomous slings and arrows hurled by Christian and Jewish Zionist in what was to me, nothing more than a "Confederacy of Dunces." My principal ally in that class was a fiery red-haired Jewish girl who was an Israeli citizen, but had married a fellow Special Forces Sergeant that I went to MFF-JM School with. 300,000 Israeli Citizens took to the streets of Tel Aviv demanding answerers and an investigation in what turned out o be the largest demonstration in Israel's history. Approximately one-tenth of the Jewish State's population was present. I don't see those kinds of numbers coming from any Islamic country with regards to Islamic-terrorism or genocide in Sudan.

104 Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the events at the refugee camps in Beirut- 8 February 1983

8 Feb 1983

104. Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the events at the refugee camps in Beirut, 8 February 1983.

The Commission determined that the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla was carried out by a Phalangist unit, acting on its own but its entry was known to Israel. No Israeli was directly responsible for the events which occurred in the camps. But the Commission asserted that Israel had indirect responsibility for the massacre since the I.D.F. held the area, Mr. Begin was found responsible for not exercising greater involvement and awareness in the matter of introducing the Phalangists into the camps. Mr. Sharon was found responsible for ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge when he approved the entry of the Phalangists into the camps as well as not taking appropriate measures to prevent bloodshed. Mr. Shamir erred by not taking action after being alerted by communications Minister Zippori. Chief of Staff Eitan did not give the appropriate orders to prevent the massacre. The Commission recommended that the Defense Minister resign, that the Director of Military Intelligence not continue in his post and other senior officers be removed. Full text follows:


At a meeting of the Cabinet on 28 September 1982, the Government of Israel resolved to establish a commission of inquiry in accordance with the Commissions of Inquiry Law of 1968. The Cabinet charged the commission as follows:

"The matter which will be subjected to inquiry is: all the facts and factors connected with the atrocity carried out by a unit of the Lebanese Forces against the civilian population in the Shatilla and Sabra camps."

In the wake of this resolution, the President of the Supreme Court, by virtue of the authority vested in him under Section 4 of the aforementioned law, appointed a commission of inquiry comprised as follows:

Yitzhak Kahan, President of the Supreme Court commission chairman; Aharon Barak, Justice of the Supreme Court; Yona Efrat, Major General (Res.).

The commission held 60 sessions, hearing 58 witnesses. As per the commission's requests of the Cabinet Secretary, the Office of the Minister of Defense, the General Staff of the Israel Defense Forces (henceforth, the I.D.F.), the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, and other public and governmental institutions, the commission was provided with many documents, some of which were, in the course of the deliberations, submitted to the commission as exhibits. The commission decided, in accordance with section 13(A) of the law, that there was a need to collect data necessary for its investigation. Appointed as staff investigators were:

Ms. Dorit. Beinish, Deputy State Attorney, and Ms. Edna Arbel, Senior Assistant to the District Attorney (Central District), who were seconded to the commission by the Attorney General; and Assistant Police Commander Alex Ish-Shalom, who was seconded to the commission by the Inspector General of the Israel Police. Judge David Bartov was appointed commission coordinator. The staff investigators collected, by virtue of the authority vested in them under Sections 13(C), 180 statements from 163 witnesses. Before the commission began its deliberations, it visited Beirut, but it was not allowed to enter the area of the events. The commission also viewed television footage filmed near the time of the events at the camps and their surroundings.

The commission published notices to the public in the press and other media, inviting all who wish to testify or submit a document or bring any information to the commission's attention to submit to the commission in writing details of the material he possessed or wished to bring to the commission's attention. There was not much response to these appeals. The commission made an effort to collect testimony also from people who live outside the juridical boundaries of the State of Israel; and all necessary steps were taken to bring witnesses from outside of Israel, when this was possible. The commission's requests in this matter were not always honored. For example, the "New York Times" correspondent Mr Thomas Friedman, who published in the aforementioned newspaper a famous article on what transpired during the period under deliberation here, refused to appear before the commission, claiming that this was contrary to his paper's editorial policy. We did not receive a satisfactory answer as to why the paper's publisher prevented its reporter from appearing before the commission and thus helping it uncover all the important facts.

Some of the commission's hearings were held in open session, but most of the sessions were in camera. In this matter we acted in accordance with the instructions of Section 18(A) of the law, according to which a commission of inquiry is required to deliberate in open session but is entitled to deliberate in camera if it is convinced that "it is necessary to do so in the interest of protecting the security of the State... the foreign relations of the State..." and for other reasons stipulated in that section. It became clear to the commission that with regard to certain matters about which witnesses testified before it, open hearings would be liable to affect adversely the nation's security or foreign relations; and therefore it heard most of its testimony in camera. It should be noted that during sessions held in camera, witnesses also said things whose publication would not cause any harm; however, because of the difficulty in separating those things whose publication would be permissible from those whose publication would be forbidden, it was imperative in a substantial number of cases to hear the entire testimony in camera.

In accordance, with Section 20(A) of the law, this report is being published together with an appendix that will be called Appendix A. In the event that we will need recourse in this report to testimony whose publication would not be damaging to the nation's security or foreign relations, we shall present it in a section of the report that will be published. On the other hand, in accordance with Section 20(A) of the law, a portion of this report, to be called Appendix B, will not be published, since, in our opinion, non-publication of this material is essential in the interest of protecting the nation's security or foreign relations.

As we have said, the commission's task, as stipulated by the Cabinet's resolution, is "to investigate all the facts and factors connected with the atrocity which was carried out by a unit of the Lebanese Forces against the civilian population of the Shatilla and Sabra camps." These acts were perpetrated between Thursday, 16 September 1982, and Saturday, 18 September 1982. The establishment of the facts and the conclusions in this report relate only to the facts and factors connected with the acts perpetrated in the aforementioned time frame, and the commission did not deliberate or investigate matters whose connection with the aforementioned acts is indirect or remote. The commission refrained, therefore, from drawing conclusions with regard to various issues connected with activities during the war that took place in Lebanon from 6 June 1982 onward or with regard to policy decisions taken by the Government before or during the war, unless these activities or decisions were directly related to the events that are the subject of this investigation. Descriptions of facts presented in this report that deviate from the framework of the commission's authority (as defined above) have been cited only as background material, in order to better understand and illustrate the chain of events.

In one area we have found it necessary to deviate somewhat from the stipulation of the Cabinet's resolution, which represents the commission's terms of reference. The resolution speaks of atrocities carried out by "a unit of the Lebanese Forces." The expression "Lebanese Forces" refers to an armed force known by the name "Phalangists" or "Ketaib" (henceforth, Phalangists). It is our opinion that we would not be properly fulfilling our task if we did not look into the question of whether the atrocities spoken of in the Cabinet's resolution were indeed perpetrated by the Phalangists, and this question will indeed be treated in the course of this report.

The commission's deliberations can be divided into two stages. In the first stage, the commission heard witnesses who had been summoned by it, as well as witnesses who had expressed the desire to appear before it. The commission asked questions of these witnesses, and they were given the opportunity of bringing before the commission everything known to them of the matters that constitute the subject of the investigation. When this stage terminated, the commission issued a resolution in accordance with Section 15(A) of the aforementioned law, concerning the harm that might be caused certain people as a result of the investigation or its results; this was done in order to enable these people to study the material, to appear before the commission and to testify (for the text of the resolution, see section I of appendix A). In accordance with this resolution, the chairman of the commission sent notices to nine people; the notices detailed how each one of them might be harmed. The material in the commission's possession was placed at the disposal of those receiving the notices and of the attorneys appointed to represent them. During the second stage of the deliberations, we heard witnesses who had been summoned at the request of the lawyers, and thus some of the witnesses who had testified during the first stage were cross-examined.

Afterwards, written summations were submitted, and the opportunity to supplement these summations by presenting oral arguments was given. We should already note that involving the lawyers in the commission's deliberations did not in any way make the commission's work more difficult; it even helped us in fulfilling our task. The lawyers who appeared before us were able to clarify properly, though not at excessive length, the various points that were the subject of controversy; and thus they rendered valuable assistance to the commission's task, without in any way prejudicing their professional obligation to properly represent and defend their clients.

When we resolved to issue, in accordance with Section 15(A) of the law, notices about harm to the nine people, we were not oblivious to the fact that, during the course of the investigation, facts were uncovered that could be the prima facie basis for results that might cause harm to other persons as well. Our consideration in limiting the notices about possible harm to only nine persons was based on [the conception] that it is our duty, as a public judicial commission dealing with an extremely important issue - one which had raised a furor among the general public in Israel and other nations - to deliberate and reach findings and conclusions with regard to the major and important things connected with the aforementioned events, and to the question of the responsibility of those persons whose decisions and actions could have decisively influenced the course of events. We felt that with regard to the other people who were involved in one way or another in the events we are investigating, but whose role was secondary, it would be better that the clarification or investigation, if deemed necessary, be carried out in another manner, and not before this commission, viz., before the military authorities, in accordance with the relevant stipulations of the military legal code and other legislation. We chose this path so that the matters under investigation would not expand and become overly-complicated and so that we could complete our task in not too long a time.

In the course of the investigation, not a few contradictions came out regarding various facts about which we had heard testimony. In those cases where the contradictions referred to facts important for establishing findings and drawing subsequent conclusions, we shall decide between the variant versions in accordance with the usual criteria in judicial and quasi-judicial tribunals. Our procedures are not those of a criminal court; and therefore the criterion of criminal courts that stipulates that in order to convict someone his guilt must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, does not apply in this case. Nevertheless, since we are aware that our findings and conclusions are liable to be of significant influence from a social and ethical standpoint, and to harm also in other ways persons involved in our deliberations, no finding of significant harm was established with regard to any one of those to whom notices were sent, unless convincing evidence on which to base such a finding was found, and we shall not be satisfied with evidence that leaves room for real doubt. We shall not pretend to find a solution to all the contradictions in testimony. In many instances, these contradictions relate to the content of conversations that took place between various people without the presence of witnesses, or when the witnesses' attention was not focused on the content of the conversation, and there are no exact notes on these conversations. In such cases, it is only natural that there exist several versions with regard to what was said, and the differences between them do not necessarily derive from a desire to conceal the truth but rather are sometimes the natural result of a failure of the human memory. We do not see the need to rule about those contradictions which surround unimportant details that do not influence the decision about points in controversy.

We shall conclude this part of the report by expressing appreciation and gratitude to all those who helped us in fulfilling our task. It is only fitting that we note that all the institutions and various functionaries in the Government, the I.D.F., and other authorities whose help we needed rendered us all the necessary assistance and placed at our disposal all the relevant material, without reservation. Our special thanks go to the coordinator of the commission, Judge David Bartov, who showed great capability in handling the administrative aspects of the commission's work and without whose enterprise and devoted and efficient work it is very doubtful whether we would have succeeded in properly carrying out our task. Our appreciation and gratitude go also to the staff investigators, Dorit Beinish, Edna Arbel and Alex Ish-Shalom, who, by virtue of their expertise, initiative and dedication, succeeded in placing at our disposal much material which served as the basis of the commission's deliberations and findings. Similarly, our thanks go to the entire staff of commission employees, whose loyalty and faithfulness enabled us to carry out and complete our task.

A Description of the Events

The Period Before the Events in Beirut

In 1975, civil war broke out in Lebanon. This war began with clashes in Sidon between the Christians and Palestinian terrorists and subsequently widened in a manner to encompass many diverse armed forces - under the auspices of ethnic groups, political parties, and various organizations - that were active in Lebanon. In its early stages, this war was waged primarily between the Christian organizations on the one hand, and Palestinian terrorists, Lebanese leftist organizations, and Muslim and Druze organizations of various factions on the other. In the course of the civil war, Syrian army forces entered Lebanon and took part in the war, for a certain period of time on the side of the Christian forces, and subsequently on the side of the terrorists and the Lebanese leftist organizations. During the early years of the war, massacres on a large scale were perpetrated by the fighting forces against the civilian population. The Christian city of Damour was captured and destroyed by Palestinian terrorists in January 1976. The Christian residents fled the city, and the conquering forces carried out acts of slaughter that cost the lives of many Christians. In August 1976, the Christian forces captured the Tel Zaatar refugee camp in Beirut, where Palestinian terrorists had dug in, and thousands of Palestinian refugees were massacred. Each massacre brought in its wake acts of revenge of a similar nature. The number of victims of the civil war has been estimated at close to 100,000 killed, including a large number of civilians, among them women and children.

The Palestinians' armed forces organized and entrenched themselves in camps inhabited by refugees who had arrived in Lebanon in various waves, beginning in 1948. There are various estimates as to the number of Palestinian refugees who were living in Lebanon in 1982. According to the figures of U.N.R.W.A. (the United Nations Relief and Works Agency), the Palestinian refugees numbered approximately 270,000. On the other hand, the leaders of the Christian armed forces estimated the number of Palestinian refugees at approximately 500,000 or more. This estimate is most probably exaggerated, and the more realistic estimate is the one that puts the number of Palestinian refugees at approximately 300,000 - and in any case, not more than 400,000.

The main Christian armed force that took part in the civil war consisted mainly of Maronite Christians, though a small number of Shiites joined them. This force comprised several armed Christian organizations, the largest among them being the organizations under the leadership of the Chamoun family and of the Jemayel family. The head of the Jemayel family, Mr. Pierre Jemayel, founded the Phalangist organization; and the leader of this organization in recent years was Pierre's son, Bashir Jemayel. In the course of time, the Phalangist organization became the central element in the Christian forces; in 1982, the Phalangists ruled the Christian armed forces. Even though the "Lebanese Forces" formally comprised several Christian organizations, the dominant and primary force in this organization, at the time under our scrutiny, was the Phalangists, led by the Jemayel family.

When the war broke out in Lebanon in June 1982, the Phalangist force included a nucleus of approximately 2,000 full-time recruited soldiers. In addition, the Phalangists had a reserve armed force - that is, men who served part-time in their free hours or when they were called up for special service. When fully mobilized, the number of Phalangist soldiers reached 5,000. Similarly, the Phalangists had militias in the villages. There were no ranks in this military force, but it was organized along military lines, with Bashir Jemayel as the military and political leader who enjoyed unimpeachable authority. The Phalangists had a general staff comprised of several commanders. At the head of this general staff was a commander named Fadi Frem; at the head of the Phalangists' intelligence division was a commander by the name of Elie Hobeika.

The link between the Christian forces and the State of Israel was formed shortly after the start of the civil war. In the course of time, this link grew stronger, from both political and military standpoints. The Christian forces were promised that if their existence were to become endangered, Israel would would come to their aid. Israel extended significant aid to the Christian armed forces, supplying arms, uniforms, etc., and also training and instruction, Over the course of time, a considerable number of meetings were held between leaders of the Phalangists and representatives of the Government of Israel and the I.D.F. In the course of these meeting, the ties between the leaders of the two sides grew stronger. The Institute for Intelligence and Special Assignments (henceforth, the Mossad) was made responsible for the link with the Phalangists; and representatives of the Mossad maintained - at various times, and in various ways - a rather close connection with the Phalangist leadership. In the course of these meetings, the Phalangist leaders brought up various plans for strengthening the Christian forces' position, as well as various ways of bringing about the end of the civil war in Lebanon and restoring the independence of that nation, while [simultaneously] buttressing the status of the Phalangists and those allied with them in a regime that would be established in Lebanon. Israel's representatives expressed various reservations with regard to these plans and Israel's involvement in their realization.

A separate armed force is the military force in South Lebanon - the "Army of Free Lebanon" under the command of Major Haddad. This force comprises several hundred full-time soldiers. In addition, there is in South Lebanon a National Guard, which, under the command of local officers, does guard duty in the villages. Relations between the Phalangists and Haddad's men are not particularly close, for various reasons, and there were points of tension between these two forces. In 1982, soldiers of both Major Haddad and the Phalangists wore uniforms provided by Israel - and similar to those worn by the I.D.F. The Phalangists' uniforms bore an emblem consisting of the inscription "Ketaib Lubnaniyeh" and the drawing of the cedar, embroidered over the shirt pocket. Major Haddad's soldiers had an emblem on the epaulet inscribed with the words "Army of Free Lebanon" in Arabic and the drawing of a cedar. During the war, Haddad's force advanced and reached the Awali River. Pursuant to I.D.F. orders, Haddad's army did not proceed north of the Awali River.

The subject of the Palestinian population in Lebanon, from among whom the terrorist organizations sprang up and in the midst of whom their military infrastructure was entrenched, came up more than once in meetings between phalangist leaders and Israeli representatives. The position of the Phalangist leaders, as reflected in various pronouncements of these leaders, was, in general, that no unified and independent Lebanese state could be established without a solution being found to the problem of the Palestinian refugees, who, according to the Phalangists' estimates, numbered half a million people. In the opinion of the Phalangists, that number of refugees, for the most part Muslims, endangered [both] the demographic balance between the Christians and Muslims in Lebanon and (from other standpoints as well) the stability of the State of Lebanon and the status of the Christians in that country. Therefore, the Phalangist leaders proposed removing a large portion of the Palestinian refugees from Lebanese soil, whether by methods of persuasion or other means of pressure. They did not conceal their opinion that it would be necessary to resort to acts of violence in order to cause the exodus of many Palestinian refugees from Lebanon.

As we have said, the Mossad was the organization that actually handled the relations between the Phalangists and Israel, and its representatives maintained close contacts with the Phalangist leadership. In addition, the Intelligence branch of the I.D.F. (henceforth Military Intelligence) participated, albeit in a more limited capacity, in the contacts with the Phalangists; and it, by virtue of its job, was to issue a not insignificant number of evaluation papers on the Phalangists, their leaders, their aims, their fighting ability, etc. The division of labor between the Mossad and Military Intelligence with regard to the Phalangists, was spelled out in a document (exhibit 189). While this division of duties left room for misunderstandings and also duplication in various areas, there is no room for doubt that both the Mossad and Military Intelligence specifically dealt with drawing up evaluations on the Phalangists, and each one of them was obligated to bring these evaluations to the attention of all interested parties. Neither the head of the Mossad nor the director of Military Intelligence disagreed with this in his testimony before us.

From the documents submitted to us and the testimony we heard, it emerges that there were differences of opinion between the Mossad and Military Intelligence with regard to the relations with the Phalangists. The Mossad, to a not inconsiderable extent under the influence of constant and close contact with the Phalangist elite, felt positively about strengthening relations with that organization, though not ignoring its faults and weaknesses. This approach of the Mossad came out clearly in the testimony we heard from the person who was in charge of the Mossad's contacts with the Phalangists. The head of the Mossad, in his testimony before us on 27.12.82, said, inter alia (p. 1437), that "the Mossad tried, to the best of its ability, throughout this period, to present and approach the subject as objectively as possible; but since it was in charge of the contacts, I accept as an assumption that subjective, and not only objective, relations also emerged. I must accept that in contacts, when you talk to people, relationships are formed." In contrast, Military Intelligence was to emphasize in its evaluations the danger in the link with the Phalangists, primarily because of this organization's lack of reliability, its military weakness, and other reasons we need not specify here. A characteristic expression of the difference in approach between these two agencies, whose responsibility it was to provide evaluations on the Phalangists and the desirability of relations with them, can be found in the exchange of documents when one of the intelligence officers (henceforth intelligence officer A, whose full name appears in the list of names in section I of Appendix B) who served as a liaison officer on behalf of Military Intelligence in the Mossad's representation at Phalangist headquarters at the beginning of the war submitted an assessment (exhibit 171) on cooperation with the Phalangists. This Military Intelligence officer rendered a negative evaluation, from Israel's standpoint, of the Phalangists' policy during the war and their aims for the future. This criticism was vigorously rejected by the Mossad (exhibit 172).

The "Peace for the Galilee" war (henceforth the war) began on 6.6.82 On 12-14 June, J.D.F. forces took over the suburbs of Beirut and linked up with the Christian forces who controlled East Beirut. On 25 June the encirclement of West Beirut was completed and I.D.F. forces were in control of the Beirut-Damascus road. There followed a period of approximately one and a half months of negotiations on the evacuation of the terrorists and the Syrian forces from West Beirut, and during this time various targets in West Beirut were occasionally shelled and bombed by the I.D.F.'s, Air Force and artillery. On 19.8.82 the negotiations on the evacuation of the terrorists and the Syrian forces from West Beirut were completed On 23.8.82 Bashir Jemayel was elected president of Lebanon. His term of office was supposed to begin on 23 September 1982.

On 21-26 August, a multi-national force arrived in Beirut, and the evacuation of the terrorists and the Syrian forces began. The evacuation was completed on I September; however, according to information from various sources, the terrorists did not fulfill their obligation to evacuate all their forces from West Beirut and hand their weapons over to the Lebanese army but left in West Beirut, according to various estimates, approximately 2,000 fighters, as well as many arms caches, some of which were handed over by the terrorists to the Lebanese leftist militia "Mourabitoun." This militia numbered approximately 7,000 men in west Beirut, and it cooperated with the terrorists. After the evacuation was completed, the multi-national force left Lebanon (10- 12 September 1982; cf. section 2 of Appendix A for dates of stages of the war).

At the beginning of the war, the Chief of Staff [Lt.-Gen. Rafael Eitan] told the Phalangists that they should refrain from all fighting. This order was issued because of the fear that if the Phalangists' force got into trouble while fighting, the I.D.F. would be forced to come to its aid, thereby disrupting the I.D.F.'s plan of action. Even after I.D.F. forces reached the Damour-Shouf line, the I.D.F.'s orders were that the Phalangists would not participate in fighting (testimony of the Chief of Staff, pp. 195-6). After I.D.F. forces reached the area under Christian control, the Phalangist commanders suggested that a company of theirs of approximately 300 men set up a training base at a place called Beit Ad-Din, a site of historical importance in Lebanon. The Chief of Staff agreed to this, but made his agreement conditional on the Phalangist forces' exercising restraint and discipline, as the area was Druze. At first, this condition was honored; afterwards, there were outbursts of hostilities between the Phalangists and the Druze in Beit Ad Din. The Druze committed some murders, and the Phalangists took revenge; a small I.D.F. force was stationed in the area in order to prevent such actions. In the early stages of the war there were also some acts of revenge and looting on the part of the Christians in Sidon; these were stopped by the I.D.F.

When I.D.F. forces were fighting in the suburbs of Beirut and along the Beirut-Damascus road, the Phalangists were asked to cooperate with the I.D.F.'s actions by identifying terrorists, a task at which the Phalangists' expertise was greater than that of the Israeli security forces. During these actions there were generally no acts of vengeance or violence against the Palestinian civilian population by the Phalangists who were operating with the I.D.F. Another action of the Phalangists' military force was the capture of the technical college in Reihan, a large building in Beirut not located in a built-up area. The Phalangists captured this place from the armed Shiite organization "Amal." One day after the place was taken, the Phalangists turned the building over to the I.D.F. and left the site (testimony of the Chief of Staff, pp. 198-200).

The fighting actions of the Phalangists during that time were few, and in effect the fighting was all done by I.D.F. forces alone. This state of affairs aroused criticism and negative reactions from the Israeli public, and among I.D.F. soldiers as well. This dissatisfaction was expressed in various ways; and in the political echelon, as well as in the media, there was amazement that the Phalangists were not participating in the fighting, even though the war was their battle as well, and it was only right that they should be taking part in it. The feeling among the Israeli public was that the I.D.F. was "pulling the chestnuts out of the fire" for the Phalangists. As the number of I.D.F. casualties mounted, public pressure for the Phalangists to participate in real fighting increased. The plan formulated in mid-June 1982, when it was still uncertain whether the terrorists would agree to leave West Beirut, was that the Christian forces would fight to take control of West Beirut; the I.D.F. would not take part in that operation; and only in the event that it became necessary would the I.D.F. help out the Phalangists with long-range artillery fire. This plan was discussed in the Cabinet meeting of 15.6.82, where it was proposed by the Prime Minister, and his proposal was adopted by the Cabinet, namely, that I.D.F. forces would not enter West Beirut, and this job was to be done by other forces (meaning the Phalangists) with help they would be given by the I.D.F. (transcript of the Cabinet meeting of 15.6.82, exhibit 53). Even after this resolution, no real fighting was done by the Phalangists for the purpose of extending control over West Beirut; and, as we have said, eventually the terrorists were evacuated as the result of a political agreement, after the I.D.F. had shelled various targets in West Beirut.

In all the testimony we have heard, there has been unanimity regarding [the fact] that the battle ethics of the Phalangists, from the standpoint of their attitude to non-combatants, differ greatly from those of the I.D.F. It has already been noted above that in the course of the civil war in Lebanon, many massacres had been perpetrated by the various forces that had taken part in the fighting. When the war began in June 1982, the prevailing opinion among the Mossad agents who had maintained contacts with the Phalangist leadership was that the atrocities and massacres were a thing of the past, and that the Phalangist forces had reached a stage of political and organizational maturity that would ensure that such actions would not repeat themselves. This opinion was based both on personal impressions of the character of the Phalangist leadership, as well as on the recognition that the interest of the Phalangist elite to eventually rule an independent Lebanese nation, half or more of whose population is Muslim and would be interested in maintaining relations with the Arab world, requires moderations of actions against Palestinians and restraint as to modes of operation. At the same time, there were various facts that were not compatible with this outlook. During the meetings that the heads of the Mossad held with Bashir Jemayel, they heard things from him that left no room for doubt that the intention of this Phalangist leader was to eliminate the Palestinian problem in Lebanon when he came to power - even if that meant resorting to aberrant methods against the Palestinians in Lebanon (testimony on pps. 16, 17, and 168 of the transcripts; exhibit 85 of 30 June 1982, clause 14 - section 2 of Appendix B). Similar remarks were heard from other Phalangist leaders. Furthermore, certain actions of the Phalangists during the war indicated that there had been no fundamental change in their attitude toward different segments of the Lebanese population, such as Druze and Palestinians, whom the Phalangists considered enemies. There were reports of Phalangist massacres of women and children in Druze villages, as well as the liquidation of Palestinians carried out by the intelligence unit of Elie Hobeika (testimony no. 105 of intelligence officer B before the staff investigators, part of which appears in section 3 of Appendix B; also, a document which mentions the Phalangist attitude toward terrorists they had taken prisoner - section 4 of Appendix B, exhibit 39). These reports reinforced the feeling among certain people - and especially among experienced intelligence officers - that in the event that the Phalangists had an opportunity to massacre Palestinians, they would take advantage of it.

The Assassination of Bashir Gemayel and the I.D.F.'s entry into West Beirut

On Tuesday afternoon, 14.9.82, a large bomb exploded in a building in Ashrafiyeh, Beirut, where Bashir Jemayel was [meeting] with a group of commanders and other Phalangists. For the first few hours after the explosion, it was not clear what had happened to Bashir, and there were rumors that he had only been slightly wounded. Word of the attempt on his life reached the Prime Minister, the Defense Minister, the Chief of Staff, the director of Military Intelligence [Major General Yehoshua Saguy] and others in the early hours of the evening. During the evening, before it became clear what had befallen Bashir, the Defense Minister spoke with the Chief of Staff, the director of Military Intelligence, the head of the Mossad, and the head of the General Security Services about possible developments. He also spoke a number of times with the Prime Minister. Moreover, there were a number of conversations that evening between the Prime Minister and the Chief of Staff. Word of Bashir's death reached Israel at about 11.00 p.m., and it was then that the decision was taken in conversations between the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense and between the Prime Minister and the Chief of Staff - that the I.D.F. would enter West Beirut. In one of the consultations between the Minister of Defense and the Chief of Staff, there was mention of including the Phalangists in the entry into West Beirut. The question of including the Phalangists was not mentioned at that stage in conversations with the Prime Minister.

Once the decision was made to have the I.D.F. enter West Beirut, the appropriate operational orders were issued. Order Number I was issued at 12.20 a.m. on the night between 14.9.82 and 15.9.82, Orders Number 2 and 3 were issued on Wednesday, 15.9.82, and Order Number 4 was issued that same day at 2.00 p.m.; Order Number 5 was issued at 3.00 a.m. on 16.9.82; and Order number 6 was issued on the morning of 16.9.82. The first five orders said nothing about entering the refugee camps, and only in Order Number 6 were the following things stated (clause 2, document no. 6, exhibit 14):

"The refugee camps are not to be entered. Searching and mopping up the camps will be done by the Phalangists/ Lebanese Army."

Clause 7 of the same order also states that the Lebanese Army "is entitled to enter any place in Beirut, according to its request."

Execution of the I.D.F.'s entry into West Beirut began during the early morning hours of 15.9.82.

On the night between 14.9.82 and 15.9.82, the Chief of Staff flew to Beirut with a number of people and met there with the G.O.C. Northern Command [Major General Amir Drori] and with the commander of the division (henceforth the division). Afterwards, the Chief of Staff, together with the people accompanying him, went to the Phalangists' headquarters, where, according to his testimony (p. 210), he ordered the Phalangist commanders to effect a general mobilization of all their forces, impose a general curfew on all the areas under their control, and be ready to take part in the fighting. The response of the Phalangist commanders who took part in that meeting was that they needed 24 hours to organize. The Chief of Staff requested that a Phalangist liaison officer come to the place where the division's forward command post was located (henceforth forward command post) under the command of Brigadier-General Amos Yaron. At that meeting, the Phalangist commanders were told by the Chief of Staff that the I.D.F. would not enter the refugee camps in West Beirut but that the fighting this entails would be undertaken by the Phalangists (Chief of Staff's testimony, p. 211). The Chief of Staff testified that the entry of the Phalangists into the refugee camps was agreed upon between the Minister of Defense and himself at 8.30 p.m. on the previous evening. The camps in question were Sabra and Shatilla. After the meeting in the Phalangists' camps, the Chief of Staff went to the forward command post.

The forward command post was located on the roof of a five-storey building about 200 meters southwest of the Shatilla camp. The borders of the two camps were not defined exactly. The Sabra camp extended over an area of some 300 x 200 meters and Shatilla over an area of about 500 x 500 meters (testimony of the deputy assistant to the director of Military Intelligence, p. 29). The two camps were essentially residential neighborhoods containing, in the area entered by the Phalangists, as will be stated below, low permanent structures along narrow alleys and streets. From the roof of the forward command post it was possible to see the area of the camps generally but - as all the witnesses who visited the roof of the command post stated, and these were a good number of witnesses whose word we consider reliable - it was impossible to see what was happening within the alleys in the camp from the roof of the command post, not even with the aid of the 20 x 120 binoculars that were on the command post roof. Appended to this report are an aerial photograph and map of the area of the camps, as well as a general map of Beirut (sections 3, 4, and 5 of Appendix A).

It was not possible to obtain exact details on the civilian population in the refugee camps in Beirut. An estimate of the number of refugees in the four refugee camps in west Beirut (Burj el-Barajneh, Fakahni, Sabra and Shatilla) is about 85,000 people. The war led to the flight of the population, but when the fighting subsided, a movement back to the camps began. According to an inexact extimate, in mid-September 1982 there were about 56,000 people in the Sabra camp (protocol, p. 29), but there is no assurance that this number reflects reality.

The Chief of Staff was in the forward command post from the early morning hours of Wednesday, 15.9.82. The I.D.F. began to enter west Beirut shortly after 6:00 a.m. During the first hours of the I.D.F. entry, there was not armed resistance to the I.D.F. forces, evidently because the armed forces that were in West Beirut were taken by surprise. Within a few hours, the I.D.F. forces encountered fire from armed forces that remained in a number of places in west Beirut, and combat operations began. The resistance caused delays in the I.D.F.'s taking over a number of points in the city and caused a change in the route of advance. In the course of this fighting three I.D.F. soldiers were killed and more than 100 were wounded. Heavy fire coming out of Shatilla was directed at one I.D.F. battalion (henceforth the battalion) advancing east of Shatilla. One of the battalion's soldiers was killed, 20 were injured, and the advance of the battalion in this direction was halted. Throughout Wednesday and to a lesser degree on Thursday and Friday (16-17.9.82), R.P.G. and light-weapons fire from the Sabra and Shatilla camps was directed at the forward command post and the battalion's forces nearby, and fire was returned by the I.D.F. forces.

On Wednesday, 15.9.82, the Minister of Defense arrived at the forward command post between 8:00 and 9:00 a.m. He met with the Chief of Staff there, and the latter reported on what had been agreed upon with the Phalangists, namely, a general mobilization, curfew, and the entry of the Phalangists into the camps. The Minister of Defense approved this agreement. From the roof of the command post, the Minister of Defense phoned the Prime Minister and informed him that there was no resistance in Beirut and that all the operations were going along well.

During the aforementioned meeting between the Minister of Defense and the Chief of Staff, present on the roof of the forward command post were the Defense Minister's aide, Mr. Avi Dudai; the director of Military Intelligence, who came to this meeting together with the Minister of Defense; representative A of the Mossad (his full name appears in the list of names, section 1, Appendix B); Major-General Drori; Brigadier-General Yaron; Intelligence officer B; the head of the General Security Services; Deputy Chief of Staff Major-General Moshe Levi; and other I.D.F. officers who were accompanying the Minister of Defense. Dudai recorded in his notebook what was said and agreed upon at that meeting. According to Dudais testimony, he later copied these notes into another notebook, pages of which were presented before us (exhibit 103). These notes stated, inter alia, that the Phalangists were to be sent into the camps. The Minister of Defense spoke with the Prime Minister twice from the roof of the command post. According to the record of these conversations (exhibits 100 and 101), in one of them the wording of the I.D.F. Spokesman's announcement was agreed upon as follows:

"Following the murder of President-elect Bashir Jemayel, I.D.F. forces entered West Beirut tonight to prevent possible grave occurrences and to ensure quiet.

"The entry of the I.D.F. forces was executed without resistance."

From the forward command post the Minsiter of Defense went to the Phalangist headquarters. A record was made of this meeting, which was attended by a number of Phalangist commanders as well as the Minister of Defense, the director of Military Intelligence, the head of the General Security Services and representatives of the Mossad (exhibit 79). At that meeting, the Minister of Defense stated, inter alia, that the I.D.F. would take over focal points and junctions in West Beirut, but that the Phalangist army would also have to enter West Beirut after the I.D.F. and that the Phalangist commanders should maintain contact with Major-General Drori, G.O.C. Northern Command, regarding the modes of operation. A record of this meeting was made by Intelligence officer B (exhibit 28). From there the Minister of Defense went to Bikfaya, to the Jemayel family home, to pay a condolence call.

From the meeting with the Jemayel family in Bikfaya, the Minister of Defense went to the airport, and on the way he met with Major-General Drori at a gas station. This meeting took place in the presence of a number of people, including the director of Military Intelligence, the head of the General Security Services, Mr. Duda'i, and the bureau chief of the director of Military Intelligence, Lieutenant-Colonel Hevroni. The situation of the forces was discussed at this meeting, and Major-General Drori reported on the course of events during the I.D.F.'s entry into West Beirut. From there the Minister of Defense went on to the airport and met there with the Chief of Staff and the Deputy Chief of Staff at about 2:00 p.m., after which the Minister of Defense returned to Israel.

That same day, 15.9.82, while the Minister of Defense was in Beirut, a meeting took place at 11:30 a.m. in the Prime Minister's Office between the Prime minister and others from the American embassy in Israel. During that meeting (protocol of the meeting, exhibit 120), the Prime Minister informed Mr. Draper that I. D.F. forces had entered West Beirut beginning in the morning hours, that there were no real clashes, that the I.D.F. action was undertaken in order to prevent certain possible events, and that we were concerned that there might be bloodshed even during the night. The Prime Minister also said that the Phalangists were behaving properly; their commander had not been injured in the assassination and was in control of his forces; he is a good man and we trust him not to cause any clashes, but there is no assurance regarding other forces. He added that the primary immediate task was to preserve quiet, for as long as quiet is maintained it will be possible to talk; otherwise there might have been pogroms, and the calm was preserved for the time being (exhibit 120).

At 4:00 p.m. on Wednesday, 15.9.82, a briefing took place at the office of the Deputy Chief of Staff with the participation of the I.D.F. branch heads, including the assistant for research to the director of Military Intelligence. The meeting began with a review by the assistant for research to the director of Military Intelligence of possible political developments in Lebanon following the death of Bashir Jemayel. He stated, inter alia (page 4 of the transcript of the discussion, exhibit 130), that the I.D.F.'s entry into West Beirut was perceived as vital not only by the Christians but also by the Muslims, who regarded the I.D.F. as the only factor that could prevent bloodshed in the area and protect the Sunni Muslims from the Phalangists. The Intelligence officer also stated that according to what was known to Military Intelligence, the attack on Bashir was carried out by the Mourabitoun, though that was not certain. During the meeting, the head of Operations Department announced that the Phalangists "are encouraging entry into the camps" (p. 7 of exhibit 130). The Deputy Chief of Staff reported his impressions of the meeting at Phalangist headquarters in Beirut that day and said that the intention was to send the Phalangists into the refugee camps and afterwards perhaps into the city as well. He added that this "might create an uproar," because the armed forces in West Beirut that were then quiet might stir up a commotion upon learning that Phalangists are coming in behind the I.D.F. (page 11, exhibit 130).

At 6:00 p.m. the Minister of Defense spoke with the Prime Minister from his home and reported (exhibit 99) that by evening the I.D.F. would be in all the places; that he had conveyed the Prime Minister's words to Pierre Jemayel; and that "everything is in order" and the decision made on the previous night to send the I.D.F. into Beirut had been most important and [indeed] should not have been delayed.

The Chief of Staff remained at the forward command post in Beirut and followed the development of the I.D.F. actions from there. On that day the Phalangist officers did not arrive at the forward command post to coordinate operations, but Major-General Drori met with them in the evening and told them generally that their entry into the camps would be from the direction of Shatilla. Major-General Drori, who was not at ease with the plan to send the Phalangists into the camps, made an effort to persuade the commanders of the Lebanese Army that their forces should enter the camps and that they should prevail upon the Prime Minister of Lebanon to agree to this move. The reply of the Lebanese Army at the time was negative.

In the early morning hours of Thursday, 16.9.82, the Chief of Staff left the forward command post and returned to Tel Aviv. That same morning, in the wake of political pressure, an order was issued by the Minister of Defense to halt the I.D.F.'s combat operations; but after a short time the Minister of Defense rescinded the order. At 10:00 a.m. the Minister of Defense held a consultation in his office with the Chief of Staff; the director of Military Intelligence, Brigadier-General Y. Saguy; Lieutenant-Colonel Zecharin, the Chief of Staffs bureau chief; and Mr. Dudai (exhibit 27 is a record of what was said at that meeting). The meeting was opened by the Chief of Staff, who announced that "the whole city is in our hands, complete quiet prevails now, the camps are closed and surrounded; the Phalangists are to go in at 11:00-12:00. Yesterday we spoke to them... The situation now is that the entire city is in our hands, the camps are all closed." Later on in his statement, while pointing to a map, the Chief of Staff stated that the areas marked on the map were in the hands of the 1. D. F. and that the Fakahani, Sabra, and Shatilla camps were surrounded. He also said that if the Phalangists came to a coordinating session and wanted to go in, it was agreed with them that they would go in and that the Lebanese Army could also enter the city wherever it chose. At this discussion, the Minister of Defense spoke of the heavy American pressure to have the I.D.F. leave West Beirut and of the political pressure from other sources. In the course of the meeting, the Chief of Staff repeated a number of times that at that moment everything was quiet in West Beirut. As for going into the camps, the Minister of Defense stated that he would send the Phalangists into the refugee camps (p. 5, exhibit 27). At the time of the consultation, the Minister of Defense informed the Prime Minister by phone that "the fighting has ended. The refugee camps are surrounded. The firing has stopped. We have not suffered any more casualties. Everything is calm and quiet. Sitting opposite me is the chief of Staff, who has just come from there. All the key points are in our hands. Everything's over. I am bringing the Chief of Staff to the Cabinet meeting. That's the situation as of now..." After this conversation, the Chief of Staff reported on the contacts during the night of 14.9.82 with the members of the Mourabitoun, in which the members of this militia said that they were unable to hide, that they were Lebanese, and that they would undoubtedly all be killed by the Phalangists, whether immediately or some time later. The Chief of Staff added that "there's such a dual kind of situation that they're confused. They're seething with a feeling of revenge, and there might have been rivers of blood there. We won't go into the refugee camps" (p. 7, exhibit 27). As stated, participating in this consultation was the director of Military Intelligence, who in the course of the discussion stated a number of things that appear in the aforementioned record.

The commanders of the Phalangists arrived for their first coordinating session regarding the entry of their forces into the camps at about 11:00 a.m. on Thursday, 16.9.82, and met with Major-General Drori at the headquarters of one of the divisions. It was agreed at that meeting that they would enter the camps and coordinate this action with Brigadier-General Yaron, commander of the division. This coordination between Brigadier-General Yaron and the Phalangist commanders would take place on Thursday afternoon at the forward command post. It was likewise agreed at that meeting that a company of 150 fighters from the Phalangist force would enter the camps and that they would do so from south to north and from west to east. Brigadier-General Yaron spoke with the Phalangists about the places where the terrorists were located in the camps and also warned them not to harm the civilian population. He had mentioned that, he stated, because he knew that the Phalangists' norms of conduct are not like those of the I.D.F. and he had had arguments with the Phalangists over this issue in the past, Brigadier-General Yaron set up lookout posts on the roof of the forward command post and on a nearby roof even though he knew that it was impossible to see very much of what was going on in the camps from these lookouts. An order was also issued regarding an additional precautionary measure whose purpose was to ascertain the actions of the Phalangist forces during their operation in the camps (this measure is cited in section 5, Appendix B). It was also agreed that a Phalangist liaison officer with a communications set would be present at all times on the roof of the forward command post - in addition to the Mossad liaison officer at the Phalangist headquarters. The Phalangist unit that was supposed to enter the camps was an intelligence unit headed, as we have said, by Elie Hobeika. Hobeika did not go into the camps with his unit and was on the roof of the forward command post during the night (testimony of Brigadier-General Yaron, p. 726). This unit was assigned the task of entering the camps at that time for two reasons, first - since the ... Phalangists had difficulty recruiting another appropriate force till then; second - since the members of this unit were considered specially trained in discovering terrorists, who tried to hide among the civilian population.

On 16.9.82 a document was issued by the Defense Minister's office, signed by the personal aide to the Defense Minister, Mr. Avi Dudai, which contained "The Defense Minister's Summary of 15 September 1982." This document is (exhibit 34) a summary of the things which Mr. Dudai had recorded during his visit with the Defense Minister in Beirut on 15.9.82, as detailed above. In various paragraphs of the document there is mention of the Defense Minister's instructions regarding the entry into West Beirut. The instruction in paragraph F. is important to the matter at had; it is stated there:

"F. Only one element, and that is the I.D.F., shall command the forces in the area. For the operation in the camps the Phalangists should be sent in."

The document is directed to the Chief of Staff, the Deputy Chief of Staff and the director of Military Intelligence. The document was received at the office of the director of Military Intelligence, according to the stamp appearing on the copy (exhibit 35), on 17.9.82.

In the testimonies we have heard, different interpretations were given to the instruction that only the I.D.F. command the forces in the area. According to one interpretation, and this is the interpretation given the document by the Chief of Staff (p. 257), the meaning of the instruction is that in contacts with external elements, and especially with the Phalangists, only the I.D.F., and not another Israeli element, such as the Mossad, will command the forces in the area - but this does not mean that the Phalangist force will be under the command of the I.D.F. On the other hand, according to the interpretation given the document by the director of Military Intelligence (pp. 127, 1523), the meaning is that all forces operating in the area, including the Phalangists, will be under the authority of the I.D.F. and will act according to its instructions.

The entry of the Phalangists into the camps began at about 18.00 on Thursday, 16.9.82 At that time there were armed terrorist forces in the camps. We cannot establish the extent of these forces, but they possessed various types of arms,

which they used - even before the entry of the Phalangists - against I.D.F. forces that had approached the area, as well as against ' the I.D.F. headquarters at the forward command post. It is possible to determine that this armed terrorist force

had not been evacuated during the general evacuation, but had stayed in the camps for two purposes, which were - renewal of underground terrorist activity at a later period, and to protect the civilian population which had remained in the camps, keeping in mind that given the hostility prevailing between the various sects and organizations, a population without armed protection was in danger of massacre. It should be added here that during the negotiations for evacuation, a guarantee for the safety of the Muslims in West Beirut was given by the representative of the United States who conducted the negotiations, following assurances received from the government of Israel and from Lebanon.

Meanwhile, as we have said, the multi-national force left Lebanon, and all the previous plans regarding the control of West Beirut by the Lebanese government were disrupted due to the assassination of President-elect Bashir Jemayel.

The Events from the Entry of the Phalangists into the Sabra and Shatilla Camps until their Departure

On Thursday, 16.9.82, at approximately 18:00 hours, members of the Phalangists entered the Shatilla camp from the west and south. They entered in two groups, and once they had passed the battery surrounding the camps their movements within the camps were not visible from the roof of the forward command post or from the observation sites on other roofs. The Divisional Intelligence Officer tried to follow their movements using binoculars which he shifted from place to place, but was unable to see their movements or their actions. With the entry of the Phalangists into the camps, the firing which had been coming from the camps changed direction; the shooting which had previously been directed against the I.D.F. now shifted in the direction of the Phalangists' liaison officer on the roof of the forward command post. G. (his full name appears in the list of names, Section 1, Appendix B) requested the I.D.F. to provide illumination for the force which was moving in, since its entry was taking place after dark. Initially, the illumination was provided by a mortar company, and subsequently also by aircraft; but because the illumination from the planes interfered with the evacuation of casualties of an I.D.F. unit, this source of illumination was halted; mortar illumination continued intermittently throughout the night.

At approximately 8:00 p.m., the Phalangists' liaison officer, G., said that the Phalangists who had entered the camps had sustained casualties, and the casualties were evacuated from the camps. Major General Drori was at the forward command post from approximately 7:30 p.m. and followed the fighting as it was visible from the roof of the forward command post. He left the site after 8:00 p.m.

Several Intelligence Branch personnel, headed by the Division Intelligence Officer, were in the building on whose roof the forward command post was situated. The Intelligence officer, who wanted to obtain information on the Phalangists' activities, ordered that two actions be carried out to obtain that information (these actions are detailed in Section 5, Appendix B). No information was obtained in the wake of the first action. As a result of the second action the Intelligence Officer received a report according to which the Phalangists' liaison officer had heard via radio from one of the Phalangists inside the camps that he was holding 45 people. That person asked what he should do with the people, and the liaison officer's reply was "Do the will of God," or words to that effect. The Intelligence Officer received this report at approximately 20:00 hours from the person on the roof who heard the conversation. He did not convey the report to anyone else, because an officers' briefing was scheduled to take place at field headquarters shortly afterward.

At about the same time or slightly earlier, at approximately 7:00 p.m., Lieutenant Elul, who was then serving as Chief of Bureau of the Divisional Commander, overheard another conversation that took place over the Phalangists' transmitter. According to Lt. Elul's testimony, while he was on the roof of the forward command post, next to the Phalangists' communications set, he heard a Phalangist officer from the force that had entered the camps tell Elie Hobeika (in Arabic) that there were 50 women and children, and what should he do. Elie Hobeika's reply over the radio was: "This is the last time you're going to ask me a question like that, you know exactly what to do;" and then raucous laughter broke out among the Phalangist personnel on the roof. Lieutenant Elul understood that what was involved was the murder of the women and children. According to his testimony, Brigadier General Yaron, who was also on the forward command post roof then, asked him what he had overheard on the radio; and after Lieutenant Elul told him the content of the conversation, Brigadier General Yaron went over to Hobeika and spoke with him in English for about five minutes (for Lt. Elul's testimony, see pp. 1209-1210a). Lt. Elul did not hear the conversation between Brigadier General Yaron and Hobeika.

Brigadier General Yaron, who was on the roof of the forward command post, received from Lt. Elul a report of what he had heard. According to Brigadier General Yaron's testimony, the report conveyed to him by Lt. Elul stated that one of the Phalangists had asked the commander what to do with 45 people, and the reply had been to do with them what God orders you to do (testimony of Brigadier General Yaron, pp. 696 and 730). According to Brigadier General Yaron, he understood from what he had heard that the reference was to 45 dead terrorists. In his testimony, Brigadier General Yaron linked this report with what he had heard in the update briefing that evening - which will be discussed below - from the Divisional Intelligence Officer. From Brigadier General Yaron's remarks in his testimony it emerges that he regarded the two reports - from Lt. Elul and from the Intelligence officer - as being one report from two different sources. We have no doubt that in this instance there were two different and separate reports. As noted the report which the Intelligence Officer obtained originated in a conversation held over the radio with Elie Hobeika. Although both reports referred to a group of 45-50 persons, and it is, not to be ruled out that the questions asked over the radios referred to the same group of persons, it is clear, both from the fact that the replies given were different in content - the reply of the liaison officer was to do with the group of people as God commands, while Hobeika's reply was different - that two different conversations took place regarding the fate of the people who had fallen into the Phalangists' hands. As noted, Brigadier General Yaron did not deny in his testimony that Lt. Elul had translated for him and told him what he had heard when the two of them were on the roof of the forward command post. We have no reason to think that Lt. Elul did not inform Brigadier General Yaron of everything he had heard. It is noteworthy that Lt. Elul testified before us after Brigadier General Yaron had testified and before the notices were sent in accordance with section 15(A) of the law; and his statement to the Staff Investigators (no. 87) was also given after Brigadier General Yaron's testimony. Brigadier General Yaron did not testify again after the notice in accordance with section 15(A) had been sent, nor was there any request on his


"What we do in life echoes in eternity."


True Peach

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  posted on 9/28/2012 at 09:39 AM
I'm not reading this thread. Not one word.

but I'd like to interject this: if people (especially our President, whoever that happens to be in January) don't listen to Benjamin Netanyahu, this world is going to be in deep doo-doo in a year or so.

I hope, if re-elected, Obama suddenly develops a spine. He'll need it.


Ultimate Peach

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  posted on 9/28/2012 at 10:32 AM
I hear you Piacere. I think that responding to anything that the initial thread poster providesonly gives credence to the majority of the utter ridiculous post that are provided.


"What we do in life echoes in eternity."

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