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Author: Subject: Why is the Immigration Problem so Difficult

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 12:19 PM
quote:
I lived in San Diego for 30+ years and now reside in AZ ( where this is rampant). What state does your Brother live in? My opinion is, if you do not live near the U.S./ Mexico border, you have no idea.

And it is not literally all about Unions, it's about U.S. citizens losing work, some of whom who just happen to be in unions.


The data and evidence of "rampant" illegal plumbers and contractors is contrary to your anecdotal opinion. Unskilled labor jobs they are forced to take in the margins of society is a big difference from work otherwise performed by licensed contractor. As for unions, you brought it up.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 12:55 PM
I would never in a million years let an unlicensed contractor perform any type of work on my home or business. Seems like that problem can be shut down immediately if people would use that logic.

No matter how we slice and dice it, there’s simply a strong demand for the cheap labor. Both political parties, and their constituents, need and want them. Whether the liberals who want to help, or the conservative farmers and business owners that need their labor. Eliminating this option could wreak havoc on their industries.

Seems like the “problem” then, is how it affects others. As emr points out, the healthcare industry is affected, as are the states that don’t receive any tax revenue from them. I think another “problem” is the group of people that don’t want to be around any foreigners, legal or not, but are forced to accept them since both parties need them here. What a dilemma.

 

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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 01:07 PM
quote:
quote:
I lived in San Diego for 30+ years and now reside in AZ ( where this is rampant). What state does your Brother live in? My opinion is, if you do not live near the U.S./ Mexico border, you have no idea.

And it is not literally all about Unions, it's about U.S. citizens losing work, some of whom who just happen to be in unions.


The data and evidence of "rampant" illegal plumbers and contractors is contrary to your anecdotal opinion. Unskilled labor jobs they are forced to take in the margins of society is a big difference from work otherwise performed by licensed contractor. As for unions, you brought it up.


Are you defending Illegal immigration?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 01:17 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I lived in San Diego for 30+ years and now reside in AZ ( where this is rampant). What state does your Brother live in? My opinion is, if you do not live near the U.S./ Mexico border, you have no idea.

And it is not literally all about Unions, it's about U.S. citizens losing work, some of whom who just happen to be in unions.


The data and evidence of "rampant" illegal plumbers and contractors is contrary to your anecdotal opinion. Unskilled labor jobs they are forced to take in the margins of society is a big difference from work otherwise performed by licensed contractor. As for unions, you brought it up.


Are you defending Illegal immigration?


That is not even close to what I wrote. BIGV, Reigning King of Straw Man Arguments...

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 01:48 PM
quote:
Are you defending Illegal immigration?


That is not even close to what I wrote. BIGV, Reigning King of Straw Man Arguments...


Simple question.

 

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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 02:32 PM
www.c-span.org/video/?c4631739/bill-clinton-illegal-immigration

Copy and Paste to Hear President Bill Clinton on Illegal Immigration. Sounds different coming from a Democrat.

 

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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 03:26 PM
Dude, it's incredibly clear I wasn't defending illegal immigrants, just refuting your platitudes about what kinds of jobs they are actually filling. It's bizarre you would jump to that conclusion. You'd save time and energy by responding to what people actually write and say. This is why there is no rational discourse here, no one listens and people just want to grind their axe.

Seriously, read this and stop doing it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 04:28 PM
quote:
quote:
We should close the border until the legalities of asylum are resolved. Trump has said if the protesters get violent and throw rocks they can be shot (that's what Israel does to the Palestinians who throw rocks at them). This could get out of hand very quickly.


The ports of entry can be closed. Closing all of any of our borders is impossible.


True but we can close the ports of entry and should.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/7/2018 at 04:42 PM
quote:
My dad RIP had two sayings. 1 - "People only talk about sex and money when they don't have enough." And 2 - "People for the most part don't kill each other when there is enough to go around."

Hate to sound apocalyptic but the worlds resources are overtaxed by a wide margin. Dirty water; overfishing; climate change. We are overpopulated by billions.

So here in America people can't afford health care. When our grandparents came into the country c 1900 they were vouched fo (and will pay cashr. Charities paid for housing and health care. There was no Medicare/Medicaid.

I work in health care in an underserved largely immigrant (many undocumented) area. I worry about the ability of my young adult children to find jobs with health care. Despite what the government says there are people who come in the country illegally who have coverage within the month. Especially the children.

I have advocated for 20 years to amend the constitution so that people born here are citizens. It is absolutely insane that someone is entitled to the same benefits for life just cause their mother happened to be in the US during childbirth. And it is not just "happened." Women intentionally come here to get citizenship for their kids; often hoping for chain migration. Wealthy people fly in (and will even pay cash) so that their child has the protection of American citizenship.

Medicare and Social Security are in a death spiral due to underfunding. Health care costs are spiraling. I have a mildly handicapped child who would be set if we had some form of national health care. He works; benefits are tough to come by.

So everyone who thinks racism is at the root of anti-immigration sentiment is not looking at the big picture. You have not seen the big picture concerning the social costs of illegal immigration; especially re health care.



I agree also with the points you brought up. Social Security is in the red because it has been used to cover disability (SSD) and SSI. The SSI has been used to help poor people who need money, and it is used in the welfare system. It was never designed for that AND as you pointed out there are not enough people contributing money INTO the social security system to cover the outflow of money GOING out of it.

In addition to the imbalance of incoming and outgoing funds, more people are older now so they are not working to pay into it and have to start drawing money out of it, so the retirees plus the SSI recipients are draining the fund.

There needs to be a separate fund for SSI funds for poor people to draw money from until there is some other program created with it's own funding source. Maybe the states should fund it with interest from annuities and when recipients reach a certain age where they could normally collect social security but have not worked to be able to qualify for regular social security, pay them out of the annuity that has been created in their individual name. Sort of like a 401K for poor people. Something has to be done, regardless of people saying why should we, why don't they work. The stark reality is there are a lot of poor people who need something. Those on SSI survive on a $6,000 or $7,000 year income from welfare. They get a small amount for rent and then $150 spending money for things they might need. The govt. just threw its hands up with no solution, and started drawing from the social security trust fund and called it SSI benefits.

The states need to take care of their people and each community needs to address their homeless, their poor and their jobless instead of expecting it to come from somewhere else. NY has a huge budget shortfall and so does the county here. They borrow from funds within the budget to try to kick the can down the road, but that is not a solution, just a short stop -gap. and even the federal govt. has only funded programs till Dec. 7th then we can go thru that shut the govt. stuff down again.

Social Security has to be there for the workers who paid into it. If they want to restructure it and create individual government annuities for people maybe they could do that. I am not an economist but everybody knows the current system is not sustainable as it is now.

Yes I agree that birthright citizenship must stop. They can get a birth certificate showing they were born here, but the rest of the benefits should not come like carte blanche. Those born here from women who cross the borders should be able to stay only till they were well enough to travel back to their homeland.

I read last Friday, The Mexicans are providing BUSSES to bus the caravan walkers to Mexico City. They do not want them stuck in their country. Maybe we need to sanction Mexico for doing this. I thought it was the democrats doing it, but it is actually Mexico itself.




[Edited on 11/7/2018 by gina]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/8/2018 at 05:05 PM
The Central Americans heading towards for the US border are now demanding busses. AND
they reportedly turned down offers of jobs, medical care, education that Mexico offerred.

FIRST POINT

https://www.onenewsnow.com/ap/world/migrants-in-caravan-demanding-buses-to- us-border

“California is the longest route but is the best border, while Texas is the closest but the worst” border, said Jose Luis Fuentes of the National Lawyers Guild to gathered migrants. Fuentes warned the migrants that if they are separated from their children they should “say they want a lawyer and not sign any paper.”

However, the U.N. human rights agency said its office in Mexico had filed a report with prosecutors in the central state of Puebla about two buses that migrants boarded in the last leg of the trip to Mexico City early this week, and whose whereabouts are not known.

Other activists and officials explained the options available to migrants in Mexico, which has offered them refuge, asylum or work visas. The government said 2,697 temporary visas had been issued to individuals and families to cover them while they wait for the 45-day application process for a more permanent status.

Christopher Gascon, the Mexico representative for the International Organization for Migration, estimated there are perhaps another 4,000 in caravans that are working their way through southern Mexico.

Mexico City authorities say that of the 4,841 registered migrants receiving shelter in a sports complex, 1,726 are under the age of 18, including 310 children under five.


Remarks: What is the International Organization for Migration? Who funds it?


SECOND POINT

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/caravan-mexico-offer/

To qualify for the program, dubbed “Estas en Tu Casa” (“You Are Home”), migrants had to be in Mexico’s southern states of Chiapas or Oaxaca. Many of the migrants did turn down the offer, however, stating their goal was to reach the United States.




[Edited on 11/9/2018 by gina]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/9/2018 at 11:36 AM
Trump signs Executive Order Denying Asylum to those trying to enter the country illegally

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-immigration-officials-move-restrict-asylum-bo rder-055150535--politics.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump on Friday invoked extraordinary national security powers to deny asylum to migrants who enter the country illegally, tightening the border as caravans of Central Americans slowly approach the United States. "The arrival of large numbers ... will contribute to the overloading of our immigration and asylum system and to the release of thousands ... into the interior of the United States," Trump said in the proclamation, calling it a crisis.

"We need people in our country but they have to come in legally and they have to have merit," Trump said Friday as he departed for Paris. The changes are meant to funnel asylum seekers through official border crossings for speedy rulings, officials said, instead of having them try to circumvent such crossings on the nearly 2,000-mile (3,200-kilometer) border.

Administration officials said those denied asylum under the proclamation may be eligible for similar forms of protection if they fear returning to their countries, though they would be subject to a tougher threshold. Those forms of protection include "withholding of removal" — which is similar to asylum, but doesn't allow for green cards or bringing families — or protection under the United Nations Convention Against Torture.

Homeland Security officials said they were adding staffing at the border crossings to manage the expected crush, but it's not clear how migrants, specifically families, would be held as their cases are adjudicated. Family detention centers are largely at capacity. Trump has said he wanted to erect "tent cities," but nothing has been funded or decided.

Omar Jadwat, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Immigrants' Rights Project, said the latest changes were clearly illegal.

"U.S. law specifically allows individuals to apply for asylum whether or not they are at a port of entry. It is illegal to circumvent that by agency or presidential decree," he said.

Trump also suggested he'd revoke the right to citizenship for babies born to non-U.S. citizens on American soil and erect massive "tent cities" to detain migrants. Those issues were not addressed by the regulations. But Trump insisted the citizenship issue would be pushed through.

"We're signing it. We're doing it," he said.

The asylum section of the Immigration and Nationality Act says a migrant is allowed to make a claim up to a year after arriving in the U.S., and it doesn't matter how they arrive — illegally or through a border crossing.
Trump has long said those seeking asylum should come through legal ports of entry. But many migrants are unaware of that guidance, and official border crossings have grown clogged.

In 2017, the U.S. fielded more than 330,000 asylum claims, nearly double the number two years earlier and surpassing Germany as highest in the world.


REMARKS: Change the asylum laws so that people cannot abuse the system. If someone or a small group of people are being persecuted in their own country and need to leave, they should have no problem coming thru a legal port of entry to the US and saying so. For a group of thousands to just say well we want to come there and you cannot stop us cannot be allowed. Since our current asylum law has a loophole saying that people can apply for asylum no matter how they get here (even coming in crossing the border illegally), until that loophole can be closed, well a President's gotta do what a President's gotta do, and invoking his Executive Orders is the way he has to do it right now.

Those who sincerely want a better life can ask the groups that are helping them like the National Lawyers Guild who was the legal mouthpiece for the occupy wall streeters whenever they got arrested, to stop flaunting loopholes in our laws.



 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/9/2018 at 09:03 PM
quote:
quote:
My dad RIP had two sayings. 1 - "People only talk about sex and money when they don't have enough." And 2 - "People for the most part don't kill each other when there is enough to go around."

Hate to sound apocalyptic but the worlds resources are overtaxed by a wide margin. Dirty water; overfishing; climate change. We are overpopulated by billions.

So here in America people can't afford health care. When our grandparents came into the country c 1900 they were vouched fo (and will pay cashr. Charities paid for housing and health care. There was no Medicare/Medicaid.

I work in health care in an underserved largely immigrant (many undocumented) area. I worry about the ability of my young adult children to find jobs with health care. Despite what the government says there are people who come in the country illegally who have coverage within the month. Especially the children.

I have advocated for 20 years to amend the constitution so that people born here are citizens. It is absolutely insane that someone is entitled to the same benefits for life just cause their mother happened to be in the US during childbirth. And it is not just "happened." Women intentionally come here to get citizenship for their kids; often hoping for chain migration. Wealthy people fly in (and will even pay cash) so that their child has the protection of American citizenship.

Medicare and Social Security are in a death spiral due to underfunding. Health care costs are spiraling. I have a mildly handicapped child who would be set if we had some form of national health care. He works; benefits are tough to come by.

So everyone who thinks racism is at the root of anti-immigration sentiment is not looking at the big picture. You have not seen the big picture concerning the social costs of illegal immigration; especially re health care.



I agree also with the points you brought up. Social Security is in the red because it has been used to cover disability (SSD) and SSI. The SSI has been used to help poor people who need money, and it is used in the welfare system. It was never designed for that AND as you pointed out there are not enough people contributing money INTO the social security system to cover the outflow of money GOING out of it.

In addition to the imbalance of incoming and outgoing funds, more people are older now so they are not working to pay into it and have to start drawing money out of it, so the retirees plus the SSI recipients are draining the fund.

There needs to be a separate fund for SSI funds for poor people to draw money from until there is some other program created with it's own funding source. Maybe the states should fund it with interest from annuities and when recipients reach a certain age where they could normally collect social security but have not worked to be able to qualify for regular social security, pay them out of the annuity that has been created in their individual name. Sort of like a 401K for poor people. Something has to be done, regardless of people saying why should we, why don't they work. The stark reality is there are a lot of poor people who need something. Those on SSI survive on a $6,000 or $7,000 year income from welfare. They get a small amount for rent and then $150 spending money for things they might need. The govt. just threw its hands up with no solution, and started drawing from the social security trust fund and called it SSI benefits.

The states need to take care of their people and each community needs to address their homeless, their poor and their jobless instead of expecting it to come from somewhere else. NY has a huge budget shortfall and so does the county here. They borrow from funds within the budget to try to kick the can down the road, but that is not a solution, just a short stop -gap. and even the federal govt. has only funded programs till Dec. 7th then we can go thru that shut the govt. stuff down again.

Social Security has to be there for the workers who paid into it. If they want to restructure it and create individual government annuities for people maybe they could do that. I am not an economist but everybody knows the current system is not sustainable as it is now.

Yes I agree that birthright citizenship must stop. They can get a birth certificate showing they were born here, but the rest of the benefits should not come like carte blanche. Those born here from women who cross the borders should be able to stay only till they were well enough to travel back to their homeland.

I read last Friday, The Mexicans are providing BUSSES to bus the caravan walkers to Mexico City. They do not want them stuck in their country. Maybe we need to sanction Mexico for doing this. I thought it was the democrats doing it, but it is actually Mexico itself.

[Edited on 11/7/2018 by gina]


Why would the Democrats be involved? They have nothing to gain. This caravan has been a gift to the Republicans who have an issue to rally around and Fox News who have their biggest story. They have the most to gain.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/13/2018 at 07:43 PM
The Democrats want to help them get registered to vote, and while they cannot be registered to vote in national elections, I read recently that some undocumented persons were able to vote in their local elections on school district matters. The whole thing is just out of hand. They should either come in legally at the official border crossings and request asylum or they should be sent back to the country they came in from.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-migrant-caravan-has-arrived-heres- what-you-need-to-know/ar-BBPFIn3


Riding on nine buses, with a Honduran flag flying out the window of one of them, the group arrived in Tijuana after a month-long journey that saw them traverse multiple countries while enduring oppressive heat, torrential rains and exhausting days-long walks.

The biggest portion of the caravan, however, is still more than 1,000 miles away. After arriving in Mexico City last week, the group has begun splintering, with some members tired of the slow pace and picking up rides wherever they can.

That larger group expected to speed through two Mexican states on Tuesday but said the government of Jalisco state cut short their promised bus rides, leaving them stranded in a rural part of the state more than 50 miles from their next stop.

By arriving in Tijuana, the group will likely try to approach the San Ysidro Port of Entry just south of San Diego.

That's the largest crossing along the U.S.-Mexico border, processing more than 100,000 people a day. Port officials recently completed a multi-year, $750 million upgrade, expanding the facility to 22 pedestrian lanes and 26 vehicle lanes.

But during a recent tour, Port Director Sidney Aki said the facility can process only about 100 asylum seekers per day, leaving migrants in Tijuana regularly waiting for weeks for their chance to request asylum.

Under new rules published by the departments of Justice and Homeland Security, combined with the proclamation signed by Trump, foreigners will still be allowed to request asylum if they present themselves at ports of entry. But the presidential directive forbids those who enter illegally from doing the same.

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 11/13/2018 at 08:41 PM
quote:
I would never in a million years let an unlicensed contractor perform any type of work on my home or business. What a dilemma.


Are you capable of changing a tire, replacing a brake line, installing a window or cleaning your chimney?

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/14/2018 at 02:02 AM
quote:
The Democrats want to help them get registered to vote, and while they cannot be registered to vote in national elections, I read recently that some undocumented persons were able to vote in their local elections on school district matters. The whole thing is just out of hand.


Yes, San Francisco passed a law allowing undocumented residents to vote in school board elections. They are not allowed to vote in state or any other elections. A total of 42 undocumented residents registered under this plan. Whether or not you believe this is right or wrong, do you really think this is a big important thing for Democrats? I would be surprised if more than 1% of Democrats care about this one way or another. Think about this - in San Francisco almost everybody on the ballet is a Democrat. Allowing 42 additional undocumented residents to vote isn't going to get a single additional Democrat elected.

Again, Democrats have nothing to gain from this caravan. Only the Republicans do by making it a wedge issue. Have you noticed that coverage of this caravan has slowed dramatically since the election, and now the caravan appears to even be breaking up? Coincidence?

 

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  posted on 11/16/2018 at 04:57 PM
The US seems to have a bunch of Haitian and other people leaving to go TO Canada. What are they giving them that the US does not?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/15/americas/canada-us-asylum-trnd/index.html



[Edited on 11/16/2018 by gina]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/16/2018 at 05:50 PM


http://revolutionradio.org/2018/11/16/why-the-new-world-order-wants-mass-mi gration-into-the-west/

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/18/2018 at 02:57 PM
Mexican citizens want them out of their city:

Migrant caravan faces opposition from angry Tijuana residents
https://www.foxnews.com/world/angry-tijuana-residents-clash-with-migrant-ca ravan

Migrants get cool reception in Mexican border town
https://www.apnews.com/cecfafdd898b478b81afb20a1e4f4279


Apparently they don't like the free food either.

Maybe the old adage is true. If you have eaten food from a food truck in Tijuana, you have eaten horse meat.



 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/18/2018 at 04:08 PM
quote:
Maybe the old adage is true. If you have eaten food from a food truck in Tijuana, you have eaten horse meat.


I have eaten horse meat, in England, Mexico and Asia, it is excellent - leaner and cleaner than grain-fed beef, comparable to expensive grass-fed beef, good enough to eat raw, though a dip of soy sauce helps. Specialty horse meat is just as expensive as specialty beef.

If you eat baloney or hot dogs you don't mind eating ground up whatever from the processing plant, could be anything, pig's feet, linoleum sweepings, a bored worker's cigarette butts, a hapless rat.

I'll take honest clean horse over mystery Hormel any day!

Horse vs. Beef:

https://www.healthambition.com/horse-meat-vs-beef


In one of the bigger food related stories of early 2013, it was reported that horse meat was found in processed meat products labelled as beef in Irish and British supermarkets. In some cases, the amount of horse meat substituted for beef was as much as 100%.

The ethics of horse meat consumption is a personal matter. And though it’s definitely one you should have a choice in, if you choose to eat cheap processed ‘meat’, it could be argued that you’re not really that concerned with what you’re eating anyway. You’ll see why ahead.


The Nutritional Value of Horse Meat vs Beef

Calories
According to nutritional data, 100 grams of cooked horse meat contains 175 calories, with 55 of those calories coming from fat.

By comparison, 100 grams of standard ground beef with 30% fat has 273 calories with 164 of those coming from fat.

While you may be able to find processed beef products with less than 30% fat, unless they are specifically labelled (and we’ve seen just how well that works) the fat percentage can be even higher.

Fat Content
Horse meat is listed to be containing only 6 grams of fat per hundred grams, 2 grams of saturated fat and 64 mg of cholesterol. It’s not surprising, with most horses eating more grass than processed grain pellets, that their meat would be relatively low-fat.

Ground beef is listed as having 18 grams of fat in total, with 7 grams of saturated fat and 1 gram of trans fat. Total cholesterol is 82 mg.

Intensive cattle production uses lots of fattening grain pellets as the primary feed and often synthetic hormones to speed up the animal’s weight gain.Cattle fed grain as their main diet will always be much higher in fat compared to those that are grass fed.

Protein
The protein content of horse meat is around 28 grams per 100 grams, making this a high protein food.

Ground beef is comparable, though a little lower, with 25 grams per 100 gram serving.

Vitamins and Minerals
The levels of certain vitamins and mineral in horse meat are quite high. It is a particularly rich source of iron and it also has good amounts of the minerals zinc, selenium and phosphorus and of the B vitamins niacin, B6 and B12.

Ground beef is also considered a good source of iron, though it is significantly lower than horse meat, with less than half the content. Zinc and selenium are higher in ground beef though and it also contains a good concentration of most of the B vitamins.

Should You Eat Horse?
While at truly insignificant levels compared to beef consumption, horse meat is eaten in many European countries like France, Germany and Italy. In specialty butchers across Europe you can find meat from horses sold alongside other more commonly known animal foods.

So should you eat horse meat? If you don’t personally have any moral objections to eating horse and you can find it humanely slaughtered in one of these specialty butchers, then I think the nutritional inoformation on horse meat above has shown it is actually healthier than regular beef.



[Edited on 11/18/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/18/2018 at 04:48 PM
While you have a Trigger Taco in hand you might want to go somewhere else.
The Tijuana folks are starting to fight with the invaders.


 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/18/2018 at 05:36 PM
You will have to come up with something other than horse meat to tell us all how you think Mexicans are inferior.
 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/18/2018 at 06:16 PM
quote:
You will have to come up with something other than horse meat to tell us all how you think Mexicans areinferior.




I never said I think Mexicans are inferior.
That is your lie.

Apparently the Mexicans do not want the invaders in Tijuana.
If the Mexican's don't want them in their city I'm sure California will be just thrilled.

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/18/2018 at 06:29 PM
quote:
I never said I think Mexicans are inferior.


True, you never come right out and say it.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 11/19/2018 at 01:21 AM
Having traveled extensively and talked to people all over the world, the one thing universal is blaming someone who has less than you for all of your problems. If you go to the Dominican Republic they like to blame their problems on the Haitians. Go to Puerto Rico and they like to blame their problems on the Dominicans. Go to parts of New York and they like to blame the Puerto Ricans. And on and on it goes. So right now Americans blame the Mexicans who blame the Hondurans who blame the El Salvadorans. Notice nobody blames those who have more than them for taking advantage of their labor, it's always blaming those with less because you look down on them.
 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/19/2018 at 02:10 AM
Hey lets hire the invaders under the table for dogcrap wages to build the wall

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NDA4B_pHh5w

[Edited on 11/19/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 
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