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Author: Subject: Herschel Walker on why Colin Kaepernick is Out of Work

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 12:34 PM
quote:
Tolerant?...As in being able to accept ideas that I don't agree with?...Sure, but I still disagree,


quote:
I just won't get angry and stoop to name calling.


Accusing players of disrespecting the flag without hearing them explain themselves doesnít sound any better.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 12:40 PM
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From ESPN, if Kaepernick kneeled in protest over the mistreatment of veterans upon returning home from war, would those same opponents see ďtaking a kneeĒ as disrespectful to the flag? Probably not. But because itís about equal rights for black people, all of a sudden itís disrespectful to the flag. Anyone who claimed this should explain.


Some would argue that reverence (standing, not kneeling, with caps or helmets off) during the anthem is a sign of respect and acknowledgement of our veterans and all the hardships that they have endured.



In what other context is taking a knee of sign of disrespect?

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 12:51 PM
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...when anyone thinks they can demand an American to stand for a song or a flag or anything...if you like it or not that isn't freedom...to be forced to stand is authoritarianism. I'm asking are we so far removed from what we fought for in WWI and WWII that we're ready to become a dictatorship and give up 240+ years of democracy over Donald Trump the most useless man ever born?? and his useless words and lack of true American values? over a song?


"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act."

"Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard."

- Robert Houghwout Jackson (February 13, 1892 Ė October 9, 1954) was an American attorney and judge who served as an Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court. He had previously served as United States Solicitor General, and United States Attorney General, and is the only person to have held all three of those offices. Jackson was also the Chief United States Prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials of Nazi war criminals following World War Il.


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 06:49 PM
quote:
quote:
Tolerant?...As in being able to accept ideas that I don't agree with?...Sure, but I still disagree,


quote:
I just won't get angry and stoop to name calling.


Accusing players of disrespecting the flag without hearing them explain themselves doesnít sound any better.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I understand and appreciate the cause, however I still see it as disrespecting the Flag and those who died defending it.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 09:27 PM
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I understand and appreciate the cause, however I still see it as disrespecting the Flag and those who died defending it


I donít buy that you do appreciate the cause, and i donít buy that you see it as disrespectful. I think itís more about the person doing it for you. If an athlete that you admire began kneeling in protest of sanctuary cities, i have a hard time believing youíd see it as disrespect to the flag. Iíll even go so far as to say youíd root it on as patriotic.


 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 09:31 PM
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I understand and appreciate the cause, however I still see it as disrespecting the Flag and those who died defending it


I donít buy that you do appreciate the cause, and i donít buy that you see it as disrespectful. I think itís more about the person doing it for you. If an athlete that you admire began kneeling in protest of sanctuary cities, i have a hard time believing youíd see it as disrespect to the flag. Iíll even go so far as to say youíd root it on as patriotic.




You left out a word. I believe you meant "If a white athlete you admire".

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 09:34 PM
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I donít buy that you do appreciate the cause, and i donít buy that you see it as disrespectful.



Believe what you will, I believe I've stated my opinion clearly.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 09:36 PM
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You left out a word. I believe you meant "If a white athlete you admire".


I'm guessing this attempt at clarification is for your benefit?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 09:54 PM
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quote:
You left out a word. I believe you meant "If a white athlete you admire".


I'm guessing this attempt at clarification is for your benefit?


No, yours. Although I doubt that there are many black athletes you admire.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/29/2018 at 10:27 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
You left out a word. I believe you meant "If a white athlete you admire".


I'm guessing this attempt at clarification is for your benefit?


No, yours. Although I doubt that there are many black athletes you admire.


I don't "admire" athletes, although, there are quite a few whom I recognize as having outrageous athletic skill sets and enjoy(ed) watching play their respective sports. Here are a few: Michael Jordan, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance from the NBA. Mike Trout, Andre Dawson & Pete Rose from Baseball...Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson & Drew Brees from the NFL. I have zero idea where any of these men stand politically. So please elaborate and tell me how "white" was important for you to include.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 08:06 AM
quote:
You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I understand and appreciate the cause, however I still see it as disrespecting the Flag and those who died defending it.


If you know what their intended message is, then why are you wasting the energy reinterpreting it for them? The flag doesn't just represent the military. For instance...

Do you think this building is
a) Italian Army Recruiter
b) Roman VFW
c) Pizzeria

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 07:16 PM
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The flag doesn't just represent the military.


For a lot of people in this Country whose loved ones have served under that standard, it does. Most connect the Flag to the "Star Spangled banner" And who are you to tell them it does not?

Look at the circumstances under which the Anthem was written.

But, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 07:41 PM
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For a lot of people in this Country whose loved ones have served under that standard, it does. Most connect the Flag to the "Star Spangled banner" And who are you to tell them it does not?


Everyone is entitled to interpret the flag differently. But you're saying that because some perceive it to represent the armed forces (even though they all have their own flags), everyone should refrain from offending them? You realize you have just given a textbook example of politically correctness? Convenient.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 07:51 PM
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Everyone is entitled to interpret the flag differently. But you're saying that because some perceive it to represent the armed forces (even though they all have their own flags), everyone should refrain from offending them?


Absolutely not. "Refrain from offending them"?....Please, there will always be those offended by something, but that does not make their voice any less pertinent. Me?...I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that in itself does not take away my right to disagree.

Simple disagreement is OK, how you choose to communicate that is up to you.

 

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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 07:53 PM
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And who are you to tell them it does not?


And if other people interpret the flag to be a symbol of all of us citizens (13 stripes for colonies, 50 stars for states) then I am happy to be the one to tell them it doesn't just represent the military and they shouldn't be so narrow minded to see things as only they so choose to.

We all have relatives who served, that doesn't entitle one to be obtuse.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 07:58 PM
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I am happy to be the one to tell them it doesn't just represent the military


That is nothing more than your opinion and you are welcome to your own little slice of reality.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 08:01 PM
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Absolutely not. "Refrain from offending them"?....Please, there will always be those offended by something, but that does not make their voice any less pertinent. Me?...I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that in itself does not take away my right to disagree.

Simple disagreement is OK, how you choose to communicate that is up to you.


Cool. Disagreement is fine, as long as people understand the issue they disagree with.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 08:06 PM
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Cool. Disagreement is fine, as long as people understand the issue they disagree with.


Disagreement on any level is fine. "Understanding" the issue they disagree with is subjective. If you don't like the stance taken by someone who disagrees with you because they "don't understand" it is not your obligation to educate them to your way of seeing things.

You have two feet, just walk away.

 

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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 08:12 PM
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Cool. Disagreement is fine, as long as people understand the issue they disagree with.


Disagreement on any level is fine. "Understanding" the issue they disagree with is subjective. If you don't like the stance taken by someone who disagrees with you because they "don't understand" it is not your obligation to educate them to your way of seeing things.

You have two feet, just walk away.


That door swings both ways.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 08:21 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Cool. Disagreement is fine, as long as people understand the issue they disagree with.


Disagreement on any level is fine. "Understanding" the issue they disagree with is subjective. If you don't like the stance taken by someone who disagrees with you because they "don't understand" it is not your obligation to educate them to your way of seeing things.

You have two feet, just walk away.


That door swings both ways.


Agreed. My experiences in life say that honest, two-way communication begins with listening to viewpoints that do not line-up with yours and responding with intent of keeping the conversation alive.

Trying to convince someone otherwise or defaming them for their beliefs is counter productive and usually is responsible for the exchange coming to a complete halt.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 08:27 PM
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quote:
Cool. Disagreement is fine, as long as people understand the issue they disagree with.


Disagreement on any level is fine. "Understanding" the issue they disagree with is subjective. If you don't like the stance taken by someone who disagrees with you because they "don't understand" it is not your obligation to educate them to your way of seeing things.

You have two feet, just walk away.


Ok, I thought we were having a civil discussion but if I'm Mansplainging too much for you, I'll leave you be to your stubborn subjectivism where things only mean what you interpret.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 08:31 PM
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I am happy to be the one to tell them it doesn't just represent the military


That is nothing more than your opinion and you are welcome to your own little slice of reality.


You have this backwards. Logic dictates that if others interpret the flag differently, then it is prove it is not just one interpretation, and those who can't see it as otherwise are the ones living in their own slice of reality.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 08:33 PM
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quote:
quote:
Cool. Disagreement is fine, as long as people understand the issue they disagree with.


Disagreement on any level is fine. "Understanding" the issue they disagree with is subjective. If you don't like the stance taken by someone who disagrees with you because they "don't understand" it is not your obligation to educate them to your way of seeing things.

You have two feet, just walk away.


Ok, I thought we were having a civil discussion but if I'm Mansplainging too much for you, I'll leave you be to your stubborn subjectivism where things only mean what you interpret.


If I understand correctly, to disagree with you is to be "stubborn". I simply do not see things as you do, that in itself, does not define me as stubborn.

I repeat, you have two feet..

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 09:46 PM
quote:
two-way communication begins with listening to viewpoints that do not line-up with yours and responding with intent of keeping the conversation alive.


Do you think you demonstrated this with Kaepernick and sanctuary cities?

quote:
Trying to convince someone otherwise or defaming them for their beliefs is counter productive and usually is responsible for the exchange coming to a complete halt.


You accuse them of disrespecting the flag, despite hearing them explain that they are not, and you still accuse them anyway. You are describing you. Do you mean to say that you feel disrespected?



[Edited on 5/31/2018 by BoytonBrother]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 5/30/2018 at 10:08 PM
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quote:
two-way communication begins with listening to viewpoints that do not line-up with yours and responding with intent of keeping the conversation alive.


Do you think you demonstrated this with Kaepernick and sanctuary cities?


While I respect CK's opinion and comprehend what he is attempting to communicate, I whole hardheartedly disagree with his choice of platform and what I see as disrespect of those who died for the Flag and the Anthem that speaks of its glory.

That should be sufficient, but I fully expect a response that will try to prove a different opinion to be true.

I oppose "Sanctuary" cities because of the rule of Law.

This also should be sufficient, but I fully expect a response that will try to prove a differing opinion to be true.

quote:
Trying to convince someone otherwise or defaming them for their beliefs is counter productive and usually is responsible for the exchange coming to a complete halt.


You accuse them of disrespecting the flag, despite hearing them explain that they are not, and you still accuse them anyway.


Two differing opinions. "Them" and "Me"....I do not claim to be right, we possess discordant visions.

 

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