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Author: Subject: Census citizenship question is 'straightforward and valid'

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 4/18/2018 at 06:14 AM
https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2018/04/12/indiana-attorney-general- curtis-hill-ask-citizenship-us-census/510590002/

Plans for the 2020 Census questionnaire include one inquiry that should strike reasonable people as straightforward and valid: Are you a U.S. citizen?

Some of the nation’s highest-ranking legal officers, however, are calling it offensive. Further, these dignitaries say that including it on the questionnaire would even be unconstitutional.

Seventeen states, seven cities and the U.S. Conference of Mayors have filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Census Bureau and Commerce Department demanding that plans to include the question be dropped.

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, who is leading this lawsuit, said the question is intended to frighten foreign-born people and “is really just an effort to punish places like New York that welcome immigrants,” according to NBC News.

Intended to frighten? An effort to punish? Perhaps my colleague from New York would prefer to abolish the census all together. Other questions, though pertinent to gathering significant data points for analysis, may be personal or even invasive. Yet this group of defenders of the Constitution is focused on the question of whether one is a U.S. citizen?

Well, it doesn’t take a law degree to recognize that this lawsuit is unfounded.

Although I am not from New York or one of the other 16 states that filed suit, I firmly believe in the value and great legacy of immigration to our nation. In every generation, immigrants have made America better, stronger, richer, and more productive. Our diverse cultural experiences are owed in large measure to the influence of the immigrant, born on foreign soil but arrived here in search of freedom. The influence of the immigrant is part of our very heart and soul as a nation


On a personal level, my faith teaches me to embrace people from every nation and race. Take Leviticus 19:34: “The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt.”


How we treat immigrants in America will define much about our culture, our character and our spirit as we move forward in the 21st century.

And yet welcoming legal immigrants and treating them as brothers and sisters does not require us to abandon border security – particularly in an age of increasing terrorist threats. We have the right and even the duty to monitor and regulate who is entering and leaving our country. “A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation,” as President Ronald Reagan correctly told us.

Crafting practical solutions to the millions of undocumented immigrants already here does not require that we abandon the collection of data points, such as citizenship status, that can aid us in developing the comprehensive reform that we desperately require to move our nation forward.


As Indiana’s attorney general, I fully support the federal government’s constitutional authority to establish and enforce immigration policy. A comprehensive immigration policy must include absolute border security; a straightforward process that encourages legal immigration; and a resolution to properly address the complexities of the millions of undocumented living in America. Gathering data on citizenship undoubtedly could aid the Congress in crafting new and effective immigration policy over the next decade.

This latest lawsuit is another in a long line of efforts by various states and municipalities to thwart and ignore existing immigration law. For the good of all citizens and noncitizens alike, local and state law enforcement agencies must always cooperate with federal authorities seeking to enforce our nation’s immigration laws. In fact, they are legally bound to do so.

We need not venture any further into the legal weeds to state a simple and obvious conclusion: The federal government is well within its rightful authority to ask census respondents whether they are citizens. (In fact, a negative response does not necessarily mean that the respondent is illegal or undocumented. Those with work or student visas are not U.S. citizens but are here lawfully.)

Moving ahead, let’s have meaningful debates over immigration policy. Let’s work to balance mutual goals. Let’s continue to welcome “the huddled masses” while also safeguarding national security. But let’s do so in a straightforward manner rather than through legal gamesmanship and inflammatory rhetoric. All sides can do better in this regard.

Curtis Hill is Indiana’s attorney general.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 4/18/2018 at 08:12 AM
We must just have to fight about everything these days so it seems.

The census has never simply counted unidentified people without asking some other criteria. See a sampling of census questions asked according to year here: https://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/index_of_questions/


 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/19/2018 at 02:30 PM
quote:
https://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/2018/04/12/indiana-attorney-ge neral-curtis-hill-ask-citizenship-us-census/510590002/

Plans for the 2020 Census questionnaire include one inquiry that should strike reasonable people as straightforward and valid: Are you a U.S. citizen?

Some of the nation’s highest-ranking legal officers, however, are calling it offensive. Further, these dignitaries say that including it on the questionnaire would even be unconstitutional.

Seventeen states, seven cities and the U.S. Conference of Mayors have filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Census Bureau and Commerce Department demanding that plans to include the question be dropped.

New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman, who is leading this lawsuit, said the question is intended to frighten foreign-born people and “is really just an effort to punish places like New York that welcome immigrants,” according to NBC News.

Intended to frighten? An effort to punish? Perhaps my colleague from New York would prefer to abolish the census all together. Other questions, though pertinent to gathering significant data points for analysis, may be personal or even invasive. Yet this group of defenders of the Constitution is focused on the question of whether one is a U.S. citizen?

Well, it doesn’t take a law degree to recognize that this lawsuit is unfounded.

Although I am not from New York or one of the other 16 states that filed suit, I firmly believe in the value and great legacy of immigration to our nation. In every generation, immigrants have made America better, stronger, richer, and more productive. Our diverse cultural experiences are owed in large measure to the influence of the immigrant, born on foreign soil but arrived here in search of freedom. The influence of the immigrant is part of our very heart and soul as a nation


On a personal level, my faith teaches me to embrace people from every nation and race. Take Leviticus 19:34: “The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt.”


How we treat immigrants in America will define much about our culture, our character and our spirit as we move forward in the 21st century.

And yet welcoming legal immigrants and treating them as brothers and sisters does not require us to abandon border security – particularly in an age of increasing terrorist threats. We have the right and even the duty to monitor and regulate who is entering and leaving our country. “A nation that cannot control its borders is not a nation,” as President Ronald Reagan correctly told us.

Crafting practical solutions to the millions of undocumented immigrants already here does not require that we abandon the collection of data points, such as citizenship status, that can aid us in developing the comprehensive reform that we desperately require to move our nation forward.


As Indiana’s attorney general, I fully support the federal government’s constitutional authority to establish and enforce immigration policy. A comprehensive immigration policy must include absolute border security; a straightforward process that encourages legal immigration; and a resolution to properly address the complexities of the millions of undocumented living in America. Gathering data on citizenship undoubtedly could aid the Congress in crafting new and effective immigration policy over the next decade.

This latest lawsuit is another in a long line of efforts by various states and municipalities to thwart and ignore existing immigration law. For the good of all citizens and noncitizens alike, local and state law enforcement agencies must always cooperate with federal authorities seeking to enforce our nation’s immigration laws. In fact, they are legally bound to do so.

We need not venture any further into the legal weeds to state a simple and obvious conclusion: The federal government is well within its rightful authority to ask census respondents whether they are citizens. (In fact, a negative response does not necessarily mean that the respondent is illegal or undocumented. Those with work or student visas are not U.S. citizens but are here lawfully.)

Moving ahead, let’s have meaningful debates over immigration policy. Let’s work to balance mutual goals. Let’s continue to welcome “the huddled masses” while also safeguarding national security. But let’s do so in a straightforward manner rather than through legal gamesmanship and inflammatory rhetoric. All sides can do better in this regard.

Curtis Hill is Indiana’s attorney general.




Asking someone if they are a citizen means are they LEGALLY HERE. If they are NOT LEGALLY here well then yes they would be frightened to admit that. We have to stop being a nation that accepts illegal immigration it really is that simple, and the idiots who want to claim well you are rejecting certain large groups of people who want to come here so you are profiling and targeting Mexicans, Central Americans, middle eastern people. Too bad. No other country puts up with wide open borders. They demand you have relatives, or a job if you want to stay there, otherwise at the end of your visa period, you return to your own country or just leave the one you are visiting.

How difficult is this?

As to Leviticus, back in those days, people were also taught if you do not work, you do not eat. You have to contribute something towards the place where you are living/staying. The illegals may not be doing that, or they are exploited by greedy capitalists, and taking potential jobs away from legal Americans who want to work but can't find any jobs.




 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 4/19/2018 at 02:45 PM
quote:
back in those days, people were also taught if you do not work, you do not eat. You have to contribute something towards the place where you are living/staying.


Unless of course you were royalty, then it was ok to kill rape enslave humiliate anyone you felt like.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/19/2018 at 03:24 PM
The golden rule has always prevailed. He who has the gold makes the rules. He who has the wealth and power still makes the rules and plays by his own rules. Nothing has really changed.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 4/19/2018 at 07:14 PM
I am actually worried this data point will be meaningless as those here illegally will lie on the question which will distort the actual number of illegals squatting here.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 4/19/2018 at 09:02 PM
quote:
I am actually worried this data point will be meaningless as those here illegally will lie on the question which will distort the actual number of illegals squatting here.



Does the census count citizens or residents?

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 09:29 AM
quote:
The golden rule has always prevailed. He who has the gold makes the rules. He who has the wealth and power still makes the rules and plays by his own rules. Nothing has really changed.


The antithesis of this rule is the U.S. Constitution, designed specifically to hold this rule in check.

Anyone who believes your little defeatist and cowardly golden rule go unchallenged or would not fight to death to keep it from reascendance is not worthy of American citizenship, and deserves to have their liberty stolen by the petty despots they allow themselves to be fooled by.

Many if not most immigrants have experienced the stark brutality of your golden rule first hand, and are lured to America by the freedom that you take for granted, and are able and eager to be excellent citizens. Most of us "citizens", myself included, could not pass a citizenship exam.

Sure there are bad apples, but many immigrants are not corrupted by plenty, and I would rather them with me in a fight against tyranny than a pack of fat lazy psychotic medicated mouthbreathing "citizens".

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 11:28 AM
quote:
Most of us "citizens", myself included, could not pass a citizenship exam.


Not even close to the point. either you are here legally or you are breaking the Law.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 12:51 PM
quote:
Asking someone if they are a citizen means are they LEGALLY HERE.


Wrong. Someone can be here on a temporary work visa. If the census wants to count these legal residents, then there's no point in asking the question.

[Edited on 4/20/2018 by BoytonBrother]

 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 03:34 PM
quote:
Not even close to the point. either you are here legally or you are breaking the Law.


It's pertinent. Here we go round the law argument again. Laws can change. I broke marijuana laws happily until victory in Oregon. Runaway slaves were criminals in the Civil War, to cite a couple relevant examples.

I've known a couple of illegal immigrants who were hardworking and learned English (from my mom in fact, English 2nd language instructor) and attained naturalization, another who went into the US Army and gained US citizen via that route. Both good people, solid family values and work ethic.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 03:45 PM
quote:
quote:
Not even close to the point. either you are here legally or you are breaking the Law.


It's pertinent. Here we go round the law argument again. Laws can change. I broke marijuana laws happily until victory in Oregon. Runaway slaves were criminals in the Civil War, to cite a couple relevant examples.


Which of these are a burden on the taxpayer?

 

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Sublime Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 03:58 PM
Both are now taxpaying US citizens. My take on the whole issue is work with the laws on the books, move forward with changes to adjust - honestly I don't have an answer to the broken parts of the system, but I think that going on the warpath against illegals, building The Wall, joining in hate campaigns, all destructive.
 

Sublime Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 04:15 PM
Guess didn't address your question - I can't speak to whether runaway slaves were a tax burden, I'm not schooled in Civil War era economics, other than the war cost us plenty. However, marijuana laws are a huge burden on the taxpayer, whatever the cost of enforcement and incarceration adds up to. Legalize marijuana at the fed level, more work for all, could offset the burden of immigrants who got through and haven't attained citizenship status. Other ideas, profits, benefits, win wins, rather than billions spent on hammering illegals.

Gettin sick of this hipowered bud anyway, can't touch the stuff - maybe some Mexicans could teach us how to make that good ol Acapulco Gold not seen in decades!


[Edited on 4/20/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 07:49 PM
quote:
Which of these are a burden on the taxpayer?


Millions of self-employed workers who might earn $120k gross but report $50k/year on their tax returns. These whites, who make up a huge portion of our population, probably don't bother you one bit though.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 09:05 PM
quote:
quote:
Which of these are a burden on the taxpayer?


Millions of self-employed workers who might earn $120k gross but report $50k/year on their tax returns. These whites, who make up a huge portion of our population, probably don't bother you one bit though.


Too funny. I disagree with you on principle, so therefore it must be a race issue.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 4/20/2018 at 09:20 PM
The census should try and establish a count of all persons in the county, young and old, citizen and noncitizen, free people and jailed people, etc.

Historically (and there is court precedent affirming the legality of doing such), the census goes beyond just counting heads of people. A variety of questions has always been asked and in one form or another, to some extent or another, questions or origin, citizen or naturalization status have been asked many times before.

2000:
quote:
What is this person's ancestry or ethnic origin?

Does this person speak a language other than English at home?

What is this language?

How well does this person speak English?

What state or country was this person from?

Is this person a citizen of the United States?

If the person was not born in the United States, when did he come to live in the United States?

Did this person live in this house or apartment 5 years ago?

Where did this person live 5 years ago?



1990:

quote:
In what U.S. State or foreign country was this person born?

Is this person a citizen of the United States?

If this person was not born in the United States, when did this person come to the United States to stay?


1980:

quote:
In what state or foreign country was the person born?
If this person was born in a foreign country...

Is this person a naturalized citizen of the United States?

When did this person come the United States to stay?



1970:

quote:

Where was this person born?

Is this person's origin or descent...
Mexican
Puerto Rican
Cuban
Central or South American
Other Spanish
None of these

What country was the person's father born in?

What country was the person's mother born in?

For persons born in a foreign country- Is the person naturalized?

WHen did the person come to the United States to stay?



1960 (no direct citizen or naturalized question):

quote:
Place of birth
If foreign born, what is the person's mother tongue?

Birth country of person's father

Birth country of person's mother


1950:

quote:
What State or country was the person born in?

If foreign born, is the person naturalized?


1940:

quote:
Person's place of birth

If foreign born, is the person a citizen?


1930:

quote:
Person's place of birth

Person's father's place of birth

Person's mother's place of birth

Year of immigration into the United States

Is the person naturalized or an alien?


1920:

quote:
Year of immigration to the United States

Is the person naturalized or alien?

If naturalized, what was the year of naturalization?


1910:

quote:
Place of birth of the person's father

Place of birth of the person's mother

Year of immigration to the United States

Is the person naturalized or an alien?


1900:

quote:
What was the person's place of birth?

What was the person's father's place of birth?

What was the person's mother's place of birth?

What year did the person immigrate to the United States?

How many years has the person been in the United States?

Is the person naturalized?


From same link previously posted - https://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/index_of_questions/

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 4/21/2018 at 07:18 AM
quote:
Too funny. I disagree with you on principle, so therefore it must be a race issue.


Not at all. I understand that illegal immigrants are a tax burden. I'm pointing out that, of all the things that are tax burdens, the one that angers you the most seems to be the illegal Mexicans. I'm arguing that a much greater problem is the population of white America that I described, who are far more criminal than a border hopper. One leads to deportation. The other is a felony federal offense.

[Edited on 4/21/2018 by BoytonBrother]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/21/2018 at 09:37 AM
quote:
The census should try and establish a count of all persons in the county, young and old, citizen and noncitizen, free people and jailed people, etc.


Sure, but there will always be context of that particular time.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 4/21/2018 at 01:15 PM
quote:
quote:
Too funny. I disagree with you on principle, so therefore it must be a race issue.


Not at all. I understand that illegal immigrants are a tax burden. I'm pointing out that, of all the things that are tax burdens, the one that angers you the most seems to be the illegal Mexicans. I'm arguing that a much greater problem is the population of white America that I described, who are far more criminal than a border hopper. One leads to deportation. The other is a felony federal offense.


I guess we all have our priorities. Working in the wine industry for over thirty years in San Diego, I was never too far away from a restaurant or the issues that surrounded them. Now living in AZ I am just as close to the border issues as I've ever been.

You refer to the activity of crossing Illegally as "Border hopping" and you are entitled to do so. There is an arrogance and a sense of entitlement that goes hand in hand with this behavior, knowing that squat will happen does nothing but strengthen the resolve. There should and need to be consequences for a crime that goes way beyond tax burdens. Emergency rooms, schools, insurance are all things that and places that suffer because of the load placed on them by people who ignore the law. The "new" thing at the border?..Sending children over with no Parental supervision. Why?...because we won't prosecute kids. Just another loophole to be exploited by people who are "only seeking a better life" at someone else's expense... Oh, I could go on....but I think you know this is a hot button for me, not too different than your lighting up a thread every time a gun is mentioned. But hey, we all have our priorities.

 

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World Class Peach



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  posted on 4/21/2018 at 04:42 PM
Blame who you will, but tax evasion is a felony federal offense, way worse than crossing the border, and more of a burden than what you describe.
 
 


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