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Author: Subject: New Normal of Terrorism In Western Europe

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 3/22/2016 at 08:27 PM
and don't take any actions against them, or you'll just make them more mad. Just accept it, right? Sure.

quote:
As emergency services are still digging through the rubble of Zaventem Airport and Maelbeek Metro Station in Brussels, it is clear that the full scale of the devastation will take days if not weeks to assess. At this point there are already 28 reported dead and 151 injured. While no organization has claimed responsibility yet, the terrorist attacks seem most likely related to the recent arrest of Salah Abdeslam, the mastermind behind the Paris attacks of last year.

In fact, eerily prophetic, the Belgian Minister of Interior, J an Jambon, had said on Monday: “We know that stopping one cell can... push others into action. We are aware of it in this case.” Given that both attacks look like suicide bombings, and involve soft targets, i.e. easily accessible, they look like brutal acts of desperation by individuals who expected to be caught any day (as a consequence of Abdeslam’s arrest) rather than as a well-planned terrorist attack, as the one in Paris last November.

The Brussels terrorist attack, just as the related attack in Paris, shows many things, some more important than others.

First and foremost, it shows that terrorism is the new normal for Western Europe, at least for now. Citizens and politicians should acknowledge, rather than simply accept, this. To be clear, this is not the first time this is the case — think of the extreme left terrorism of the 1970s or the decades-long terrorist campaigns of separatist organizations like ETA in Spain and the IRA in the United Kingdom. The main difference is that terrorism is now affecting more countries and more people.

Second, the attacks prove that even the strongest emergency and security measures cannot make a (democratic) society 100 percent safe! Both Brussels and Paris are cities on the highest state of alert, fully aware they are prime targets of Jihadist terrorists, and were nevertheless hit.

Third, although some terrorist attacks have caused massive destruction of lives and property, most show at best a modest level of organization - hence the almost exclusive use of soft targets. While this makes the terrorists generally less lethal, it also makes them even harder to detect.

Fourth, most of the Jihadi terrorists have a relatively clear socio-demographic profile, which depicts only a small sub-set of the European Muslim population: second-generation ‘immigrants’ and ‘native’ converts, several of which have recently fought in the Middle East (or tried to) and have a criminal background, unrelated and often directly opposed to their later terrorist path. Many have radicalized in prison and were recruited either in prison or soon after being released. But terrorists are not only ‘losers of integration;’ some are from middle class families and have a relatively high level of education. At the same time,

Fifth, and foremost, Jihadi terrorism has both domestic and foreign roots. It is mostly directed or inspired by foreign terrorist groups, mainly groups like ISIS in the Middle East, but almost exclusively carried out by domestic terrorists with largely local grievances. As Olivier Roy has argued, the ‘Jihadi problem’ is not so much about religion or politics, it is a ‘generational revolt.’ The domestic Johadis terrorists feel squeezed between the (non-Muslim) ‘natives’ and the Muslim establishment, mostly older first-generation immigrants, which ironically both treat them as ‘guest’ in their own country of birth.

This all is obviously not to say that Europe is responsible for its own terrorism problem. It has created the conditions for the resentment that drives the terrorists, but the vast majority of people in those conditions do not resort to terrorism. But it also doesn’t mean that simply destroying foreign terrorist threats like ISIS would get rid of the ‘Jihadi threat’ in Europe.

Politicians from across the political spectrum are going to call for strong and swift responses and claim that this ‘new threat’ requires more competencies for the security services. They are going to promise to ‘keep us safe,’ even though they know that they can never guarantee full security. That is why it is so important that right now, at the height of the shock and trauma, liberal democratic citizens and politicians remain alert and vigilant and reject the utopias offered by opportunistic politicians.

Neither authoritarianism nor nativism can save liberal democracy in Europe! A state of security directly undermines the rule of law and the protection of rights of all citizens, not just those of the ‘guilty’ or ‘others.’ Similarly, keeping immigrants and refugees out of Europe does little to undermine the supply of terrorists, which are almost all European born-and-bread. In fact, it will only strengthen their resentment as well as their discrimination by an ever more fearful ‘native’ population.

Only if we acknowledge that our multi-ethnic societies, just like many mono-ethnic societies before them, are faced with divisions within each ethnic group, not just between them, can we learn to live with, and hopefully one day overcome, the new normal of terrorism. We have to look inward, rather than only outward, see the problems in ‘them’ and ‘us,’ and realize that a liberal democracy can only thrive if people trust the political system and each other.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cas-mudde/the-brussels-attacks-and_b_9521360. html


 
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True Peach



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  posted on 3/22/2016 at 08:51 PM
quote:
and don't take any actions against them, or you'll just make them more mad. Just accept it, right? Sure.

What are you driving at?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/22/2016 at 09:18 PM
Oh, it's not the terrorist's fault. We need to look within. We need to understand these troubled individuals and have compassion for how these individuals are discriminated against and how social and economic conditions (or lack of opportunities and integration into society) are driving them to act out in violent ways. Sure.

Never mind the fact that the religious beliefs they subscribe to, being a radical Muslim condones, encourages and sometimes preaches such violence.

"allah akbar" BOOM.

Did anyone have on MSNBC this morning with Brian Williams handling the breaking news?

He has some guy on, Malcom Nance who was there to slam Trump's Today Show comments. This Nance guy said about Salah Abdeslam, the recently captured atlarge Paris terrorist, said there is no intelligence he was part of a planning cell and compared capturing that piece of sh:t to just somebody who went on the run, almost making him out as a hero for not carrying out his personal deadly role in the Paris attacks. Not part of a planning cell? Yet all the news reports after his capture say that he was planning something and had a network of people around him. Amazing the lengths people will go do defend somebody like Abdeslam just to attack Trump.

So don't call it radical islam you know, don't want to offend any more of them. Better not draw any cartoons of Muhammad you know, because you just might make them commit another terrorist act. Don't make life any more difficult for these people because you are just going to drive more to the terrorists. Kid gloves I guess is the only approach.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/22/2016 at 10:01 PM
They just did it again. On MSNBC with Williams and Maddow, somebody named Graeme Wood "raids in Islamic communities are not helpful". Nevermind that raiding known safe houses or locations with intelligence of activity suspicious and consistent with terrorist cells may result in some evidence, tips or leads, or maybe arrests of actual terrorists. No that is not helpful because people in those communities may resent those raids.

Got to be cautious to not offend anyone here! Unbelievable.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 06:51 AM
President Obama responded poorly, yet again, digging in at Havana, and refusing to not be fully entertained for all nine innings, while our allies were dealing with the reality that isis has declared war on Europe, and not just Paris due to Charlie Hebdo.

[Edited on 3/23/2016 by OriginalGoober]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 07:16 AM
The west has been at war with ISIS for a year. The president should not have to change his public schedule every time they attack, that is giving them what they want. He's setting the example for the rest of us...go about your lives and don't live in fear. Rest assured there is a major effort going on behind the scenes. Not I'm listening to Cruz politicize the entire thing and play the blame game. Makes me sick.

[Edited on 3/23/2016 by gondicar]

 

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True Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 07:54 AM
quote:
The west has been at war with ISIS for a year. The president should not have to change his public schedule every time they attack, that is giving them what they want. He's setting the example for the rest of us...go about your lives and don't live in fear. Rest assured there is a major effort going on behind the scenes. Not I'm listening to Cruz politicize the entire thing and play the blame game. Makes me sick.

X2

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 09:07 AM
Americans need to stop listening to these damn media outlets whether they be left/right. They all are extreme and they want ratings.

Terrorists don't care about left/right, they hate you all equally. In fact, they love dividing Americans. Divide and conquer.

It is far beyond time to force the Muslim world to deal with these nuts or we exterminate them. If the peaceful Muslims don't want to out these guys, kill them and treat them like the dogs that they are then they are siding with terrorism and are also the enemy.

They understand only what they want to believe in. You hae to deal with them the same way.

Chop their f'n heads off and broadcast it. If they kill one then kill a dozen. Tell the Muslim world that if they won't deal with it then the world will.

Pakistan supports these dogs and always has and yet we do nothing. Instead of bombing rocks in Afghanistan, the battle should have been waged against where they really are and if Pakistan does not Fully support then they are the enemy.

Give me the launch codes and I will show you how to deal with this **** .

We get played by all of these nations and religious groups. Fu*k Them. Create a crater where they used to live.

Can't win or ever stop it without killing so let's stop **** ing around and flatten them.

Bunch of sand, dirt, radicals and people that won't even attempt to stop them and will protect them. They will the use the excuse that if they go against them then they fear for themselves and family. More afraid of a bunch of teens dressed in black pretending to be warriors then the combined military of the free world?

Time that we put the fear in them for a change.

They are cowards who hide and kill small numbers and create terror. They have no fear as they don't actually believe we will flatten them.

Time to give them terror and as for the innocents caught in the middle. Are they really? If not actively speaking out against these **** s then they are on their side.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 12:16 PM
quote:
Americans need to stop listening to these damn media outlets whether they be left/right. They all are extreme and they want ratings.

Terrorists don't care about left/right, they hate you all equally. In fact, they love dividing Americans. Divide and conquer.

It is far beyond time to force the Muslim world to deal with these nuts or we exterminate them. If the peaceful Muslims don't want to out these guys, kill them and treat them like the dogs that they are then they are siding with terrorism and are also the enemy.

They understand only what they want to believe in. You hae to deal with them the same way.

Chop their f'n heads off and broadcast it. If they kill one then kill a dozen. Tell the Muslim world that if they won't deal with it then the world will.

Pakistan supports these dogs and always has and yet we do nothing. Instead of bombing rocks in Afghanistan, the battle should have been waged against where they really are and if Pakistan does not Fully support then they are the enemy.

Give me the launch codes and I will show you how to deal with this **** .

We get played by all of these nations and religious groups. Fu*k Them. Create a crater where they used to live.

Can't win or ever stop it without killing so let's stop **** ing around and flatten them.

Bunch of sand, dirt, radicals and people that won't even attempt to stop them and will protect them. They will the use the excuse that if they go against them then they fear for themselves and family. More afraid of a bunch of teens dressed in black pretending to be warriors then the combined military of the free world?

Time that we put the fear in them for a change.

They are cowards who hide and kill small numbers and create terror. They have no fear as they don't actually believe we will flatten them.

Time to give them terror and as for the innocents caught in the middle. Are they really? If not actively speaking out against these **** s then they are on their side.


Well said.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 12:28 PM
quote:
quote:
The west has been at war with ISIS for a year. The president should not have to change his public schedule every time they attack, that is giving them what they want. He's setting the example for the rest of us...go about your lives and don't live in fear. Rest assured there is a major effort going on behind the scenes. Not I'm listening to Cruz politicize the entire thing and play the blame game. Makes me sick.

X2


Been at war with ISIS for a year, you mean after they were upgraded from the JV team?

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 12:29 PM
Well said...but inaccurate and ineffective. I have the same frustrations, but a more hostile war against them won't help, IMO. We were as brutal as can be in Iraq and it didn't phase anyone. We launched a shock and awe campaign, invaded, and hung Saddam on national TV, and it didn't deter the terrorists. Terrorists want to die and take out as many with them as possible. The only way to defeat that is for the Arab world to start a drastic educational program for their children that teaches them the same lessons we learn about Hitler and the KKK - that those groups are scum and the members are losers. This is not happening in the Middle East, and the terrorist groups are selling their lifestyle more effectively than their own government. This is a psychological war, and no battles or fighting will resolve it - the more violence they see, the more anxious they get to fight back and become a martyr.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 12:38 PM
quote:
quote:
Americans need to stop listening to these damn media outlets whether they be left/right. They all are extreme and they want ratings.

Terrorists don't care about left/right, they hate you all equally. In fact, they love dividing Americans. Divide and conquer.

It is far beyond time to force the Muslim world to deal with these nuts or we exterminate them. If the peaceful Muslims don't want to out these guys, kill them and treat them like the dogs that they are then they are siding with terrorism and are also the enemy.

They understand only what they want to believe in. You hae to deal with them the same way.

Chop their f'n heads off and broadcast it. If they kill one then kill a dozen. Tell the Muslim world that if they won't deal with it then the world will.

Pakistan supports these dogs and always has and yet we do nothing. Instead of bombing rocks in Afghanistan, the battle should have been waged against where they really are and if Pakistan does not Fully support then they are the enemy.

Give me the launch codes and I will show you how to deal with this **** .

We get played by all of these nations and religious groups. Fu*k Them. Create a crater where they used to live.

Can't win or ever stop it without killing so let's stop **** ing around and flatten them.

Bunch of sand, dirt, radicals and people that won't even attempt to stop them and will protect them. They will the use the excuse that if they go against them then they fear for themselves and family. More afraid of a bunch of teens dressed in black pretending to be warriors then the combined military of the free world?

Time that we put the fear in them for a change.

They are cowards who hide and kill small numbers and create terror. They have no fear as they don't actually believe we will flatten them.

Time to give them terror and as for the innocents caught in the middle. Are they really? If not actively speaking out against these **** s then they are on their side.


Well said.


The United States, the free world in general, does not have the stomach to win a war against the likes that the world is up against. If WWII was fought in an era of 24 hour news and constant critiques of military strategy, failures and successes and political correctness that war likely would've ended differently.

Maybe time for another "you're either with us or against us" President and this time don't take your eye off the ball like that last administration did.

We are told the way to defeat them is to better integrate Muslims into society, do not discriminate against them. OK, let's take that angle, what then does that say to the Muslim-on-Muslim attacks and suicide bombings? I mean, all these people want is a hug and some friendship and jobs in our communities, is that right? If that is the approach to take then how does one address and defeat the war going on within the religion that spreads worldwide?

You see, while it can be said that more or less people will be attracted to the fight depending on the conditions of their personal lives, that thinking does nothing to acknowledge that the real threat doesn't begin or end with treating people within that religion or culture with dignity and respect. The root of evil lies somewhere within that religion and no matter how much the west caters to them, it will never be enough for those who exploit the radical teachings and view that the minority is so successfully inflicting upon a majority of their own people and us in the western world.

 

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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 12:51 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
The west has been at war with ISIS for a year. The president should not have to change his public schedule every time they attack, that is giving them what they want. He's setting the example for the rest of us...go about your lives and don't live in fear. Rest assured there is a major effort going on behind the scenes. Not I'm listening to Cruz politicize the entire thing and play the blame game. Makes me sick.

X2


Been at war with ISIS for a year, you mean after they were upgraded from the JV team?


The position is a legitimate one in that if ISIL leaders sense they can interfere with the agenda of the US government they will use that as propaganda and this will inspire more recruits to join.

Since republicans seriously underestimated Trump before he took over their party one can see how an early threat can be ignored and be mislabeled. There have been numerous mistakes made by leaders of both parties over the last 40 years about the Middle East and to focus on one incident and turn it into a mantra gets us nowhere. You do believe in evolution don't you? The world is a constantly changing place.

I find it illuminating that the same people who get hung up on these incidents do not believe in the scientific theory of evolution.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 01:01 PM
I believe in evolution.

Which makes it all the worse that these people are killing in the name of some god that likely doesn't even exist.

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 01:08 PM

Easter is around the corner and unfortunately these events can happen anywhere, even here even thought the President has said that could never happen.

[Edited on 3/23/2016 by OriginalGoober]

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 02:15 PM
quote:
We are told the way to defeat them is to better integrate Muslims into society, do not discriminate against them. OK, let's take that angle, what then does that say to the Muslim-on-Muslim attacks and suicide bombings? I mean, all these people want is a hug and some friendship and jobs in our communities, is that right? If that is the approach to take then how does one address and defeat the war going on within the religion that spreads worldwide?

You see, while it can be said that more or less people will be attracted to the fight depending on the conditions of their personal lives, that thinking does nothing to acknowledge that the real threat doesn't begin or end with treating people within that religion or culture with dignity and respect. The root of evil lies somewhere within that religion and no matter how much the west caters to them, it will never be enough for those who exploit the radical teachings and view that the minority is so successfully inflicting upon a majority of their own people and us in the western world.


Lots of zero-sum statements in there. Is it all really that simple?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 02:29 PM
The whole "if we attack them then more will hate us" method of fighting this does not work.

They think we are evil whether or not we attack them.

Hit them hard in Iraq? Not WWII type hard. The attempt to be politically correct during war fails. We try and kill "just a bit".

Saudi is an ally? Bullsh*t. That is where the funding comes from and the most radical ideals. Almost all the 9/11 **** s were Saudi and our solution was to blow up mountains in Afghanistan?

There are no real allies there aside from Israel and even they have their own agenda.

We need the Muslims to stand up and be accountable for this mess. Will never happen and in the end they will all side with the enemy.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 02:58 PM
quote:
We need the Muslims to stand up and be accountable for this mess.


How so? I have a Muslim co-worker, two cubes down. He's lived here for fifteen years, wife, two kids. He's in our NCAA Tournament bracket pool. Should I go tell him he needs to stand up and stop the killing on the other side of the world?

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 03:34 PM
Tony Blair warns of 'flabby liberalism'

By Sean Coughlan
Education correspondent


22 March 2016

SOURCE: BBC NEWS

Tony Blair has warned against "flabby liberalism" and says there needs to be a tougher centre ground approach to issues such as tackling extremism and responding to the refugee crisis.

The former UK prime minister is planning a global project to prevent extremism through education.

But he warns that too often the West can "be made to feel guilty about itself" and fails to make its case.

"We're in a situation where we have to fight back," said Mr Blair.

"The centre has become flabby and unwilling to take people on. We concede far too much. There's this idea that you're part of an elite if you think in terms of respectful tolerance towards other people. It's ridiculous," Mr Blair told the BBC.


After leaving office, Mr Blair set up a foundation which works to promote greater understanding between the world's religions and to challenge extremism and prejudice.

Tony Blair says the lack of a coherent response to migration plays into the hands of hardliners

But he warned that moderate voices were too defensive about arguing their case and this was fuelling a culture of extremism in religion and politics.

"One of the problems with the West is that it constantly can be made to feel guilty about itself - and I'm not saying there aren't things we should feel guilty about.

"But you know, we shouldn't let people intimidate us into thinking there are certain values we shouldn't be standing up for," said Mr Blair, who was attending the Global Education and Skills Forum in Dubai last week.

"I'm a supporter of multiculturalism. But there's been a long period of time when we've allowed the concept of multiculturalism to be abused."

As an example, he said that if people were asserting the equality and fair treatment of women that they should not be made to feel "somehow we're being culturally insensitive".

"We have to be clear no one has the right to abrogate those basic human rights."

The former PM's faith foundation is working to challenge intolerance between religions

On the challenge of migration and refugees, he says that in an "era of anxiety", a lack of a coherent mainstream response has opened the door to more extreme arguments.

"You have to give a real solution and not one which is populist but false. If you don't give a solution, and you leave people with a choice between what I would call a bit of flabby liberalism and the hardline, they'll take the hardline I'm afraid."

He called for a more assertive policy of "muscular centrism".

The Tony Blair Faith Foundation is promoting the idea that all countries should include a commitment to tackle extremism and promote tolerance between different religions and beliefs.

He says there is clear evidence that education can reverse the spread of intolerance and he blames extremists for cultivating bigotry and conflict between religions.

"The truth is this extremism is being incubated in school systems, formal and informal, which are teaching children a narrow minded and often hateful view of those who are different," says Mr Blair.

"What people need to understand is that this culture of hate is taught.

"They are taught a culture of hate and they can be untaught it."

"This extremist thinking is what you have to attack, if you don't attack the ideology you'll never defeat the violence."

Mr Blair says that when people are taught to hate people in other religions "it's not surprising that a proportion of them go into violent extremism".

He says that he is talking to international leaders about this proposed Global Commitment on educating against extremism - and expects countries in the Middle East to be supportive.

"What is happening in all the turmoil, particularly since the Arab Spring, is that there is a much clearer understanding in this region of the need to fight back, and a realisation that you can't fight back unless you're putting a better idea in place than the extremists."

He argues that education against extremism and intolerance will come to be seen as an international obligation - in the way that environmental policy, such as tackling pollution, is addressed by international agreement.

But Mr Blair rejected the idea that promoting values of tolerance would be seen as a form of Western interference.

"The West has just got to get over this," he said.

"There are many other people in the region who do not regard the notion of peaceful co-existence as a Western value, they see it as a sensible human value, a global value."

The former prime minister also warned that both the far right and far left were promoting arguments in favour of "isolationism and protectionism".

"People are very anxious and uncertain and they are turning to the demagogic populism of left and right."

 

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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 05:31 PM
quote:
Americans need to stop listening to these damn media outlets whether they be left/right. They all are extreme and they want ratings.

Terrorists don't care about left/right, they hate you all equally. In fact, they love dividing Americans. Divide and conquer.

It is far beyond time to force the Muslim world to deal with these nuts or we exterminate them. If the peaceful Muslims don't want to out these guys, kill them and treat them like the dogs that they are then they are siding with terrorism and are also the enemy.

They understand only what they want to believe in. You hae to deal with them the same way.

Chop their f'n heads off and broadcast it. If they kill one then kill a dozen. Tell the Muslim world that if they won't deal with it then the world will.

Pakistan supports these dogs and always has and yet we do nothing. Instead of bombing rocks in Afghanistan, the battle should have been waged against where they really are and if Pakistan does not Fully support then they are the enemy.

Give me the launch codes and I will show you how to deal with this **** .

We get played by all of these nations and religious groups. Fu*k Them. Create a crater where they used to live.

Can't win or ever stop it without killing so let's stop **** ing around and flatten them.

Bunch of sand, dirt, radicals and people that won't even attempt to stop them and will protect them. They will the use the excuse that if they go against them then they fear for themselves and family. More afraid of a bunch of teens dressed in black pretending to be warriors then the combined military of the free world?

Time that we put the fear in them for a change.

They are cowards who hide and kill small numbers and create terror. They have no fear as they don't actually believe we will flatten them.

Time to give them terror and as for the innocents caught in the middle. Are they really? If not actively speaking out against these **** s then they are on their side.



RESPONSE:

We're not bombing rocks in Afghanistan, we are bombing Taliban, paving the way for Isis to make further incursions into that land and then eventually wage jihad on Pakistan destabilizing them, and then the US can intervene to secure the Pakistani nuclear arsenal, but there is prophecy that jihad will be waged on India and be successful, and that means it will be done from Pakistan, so our best laid plans will not work there. Those native born Afghans did nothing to us other than fight back when being shot at and bombed.


There is an Al Jazeera reporter this is what he has said.

"These are tough times that demand serious people who understand that you need the world as much as it needs you. “ Putting our values above our interests, our humanity above our nationalism, could help us create coalitions across continents ...”

To be sure, dear America, this is not my first open letter to you. I wrote to you more than a dozen years ago, warning of similar impulses.

I want to repeat to you today, what I said then:

Our right to security is a universal right. Preserving it in an era of globalisation is a multilateral venture. That's why our interdependence is a sign of our maturity, not our weakness. All of us democrats must confront irrational geo-theology and deadly geo-strategy by emphasising geo-ethics.

Putting our values above our interests, our humanity above our nationalism, could help us create coalitions across continents and religions to block the fatalistic and destructive drive to war.

In the absence of democracy, Middle East Arabs have not made the choice of their fundamentalists or their leaders.

You Americans, on the other hand, are a democracy and have a choice. The fundamentalists and the militarists succeed only when we democrats of the world fail to be what we must.

Dearest America, last time you didn't heed my advice and the result was wars, bloodshed, destruction and more insecurity. But it's not too late this time around to do the right thing, as you must."

Marwan Bishara is the senior political analyst at Al Jazeera. Follow him on Facebook

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/03/dear-america-don-damn-gull ible-160323092918734.html



[Edited on 3/23/2016 by gina]

 

____________________
"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 09:36 PM
quote:
Lots of zero-sum statements in there. Is it all really that simple?


Well this is just an internet forum on a music site.

Nothing is simple, everything is very very extremely complex.

quote:
The whole "if we attack them then more will hate us" method of fighting this does not work.

They think we are evil whether or not we attack them.

Hit them hard in Iraq? Not WWII type hard. The attempt to be politically correct during war fails. We try and kill "just a bit".

Saudi is an ally? Bullsh*t. That is where the funding comes from and the most radical ideals. Almost all the 9/11 **** s were Saudi and our solution was to blow up mountains in Afghanistan?

There are no real allies there aside from Israel and even they have their own agenda.

We need the Muslims to stand up and be accountable for this mess. Will never happen and in the end they will all side with the enemy.


I think we can find common goals and objectives with most any nation, be that Saudi Arabia, Russia, China...not sure about Iran and I doubt North Korea...but I am open to have some relationship with foreign nations to partner on some specific issues if it will benefit the US. Increasingly though, I do feel like you are saying. If the US had zero involvement in fighting with or for some of these countries what would they do? Would they be toppled or would they stand up and fight (and who knows if they would win). And what outcome would we want? If ISIS were running wild in Saudi Arabia like they are in Lybia or Iraq, Syria, Yemen, would we want that? If we could eliminate the dependency on that part of the world then I am all for somebody else to be world police, let China step up and run the world for all I care. Let's protect our own here. And let the rest of the world sink or swim on their own....but what if they sink...then we will all sink I'm afraid.

Again, everything is very very extremely complicated.

If we are going to stay engaged then be in it to win it.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 3/23/2016 at 09:45 PM
quote:
quote:
We need the Muslims to stand up and be accountable for this mess.


How so? I have a Muslim co-worker, two cubes down. He's lived here for fifteen years, wife, two kids. He's in our NCAA Tournament bracket pool. Should I go tell him he needs to stand up and stop the killing on the other side of the world?


That would be a start.

Of course I meant Islamic Nations. They have military and yet do nothing beyond words. They don't want to fix a thing. Muslims are divided and always have been and always will be. They are on one side or the other whether they openly admit it.

Our Muslim neighbors should all openly hate these radicals and openly speak out. Even in North America, they won't as they won't go against the other Muslims. Both sides have radicals on all levels and people fear speaking out.

 

____________________
Chicago Black Hawks - next season.


 

True Peach



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  posted on 3/24/2016 at 07:27 AM
quote:
Our Muslim neighbors should all openly hate these radicals and openly speak out. Even in North America, they won't as they won't go against the other Muslims. Both sides have radicals on all levels and people fear speaking out.


The problem you are talking about is not that they aren't speaking out, its that nobody is listening or seems to care.

http://time.com/4112830/muslims-paris-terror-attacks-islam-condemn/

http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/commonwordcommonlord/2014/08/think-musl ims-havent-condemned-isis-think-again.html

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2016/03/22/louisville-musli ms-speak-out-brussels-attack/82128032/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996902/i-am-a-mus lim-paris-attacks-social-media.html

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/local/14373349.Leading_Muslim_cleri c_speaks_out_about_terrorism__President_Bashar_al_Assad_and_the_refugee_cri sis/

http://wivb.com/2016/03/24/local-muslim-community-advocates-speaking-out-af ter-cruzs-comments/

http://www.bustle.com/articles/149432-7-times-muslims-denounced-terror

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Muslim-Scholars-Group s-Against-ISIS-Speal-Out-361309791.html

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/16/world/not-in-my-name-muslims-speak-out/

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-11-18/muslim-condemn-isis-are-terrorists-ap ostates

http://www.haaretz.com/world-news/1.686182

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.php/tam/categories/C167

 

____________________
I pledge and support the elimination of the derogatory use of the r-word from everyday speech and promote the acceptance and inclusion of people with intellectual disabilities. http://www.r-word.org/

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 3/24/2016 at 03:38 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
We need the Muslims to stand up and be accountable for this mess.


How so? I have a Muslim co-worker, two cubes down. He's lived here for fifteen years, wife, two kids. He's in our NCAA Tournament bracket pool. Should I go tell him he needs to stand up and stop the killing on the other side of the world?


That would be a start.

Of course I meant Islamic Nations. They have military and yet do nothing beyond words. They don't want to fix a thing. Muslims are divided and always have been and always will be. They are on one side or the other whether they openly admit it.

Our Muslim neighbors should all openly hate these radicals and openly speak out. Even in North America, they won't as they won't go against the other Muslims. Both sides have radicals on all levels and people fear speaking out.




Do you think that if the Saudis ordered their military to attack ISIS that the military would do so? Or, would they rebel and overthrow the Saudi government? I beieve the fear of rebellion is a major fear of the Saudis and any other Islamic nation that might be called on to fight terrorism.

 

Zen Peach



Karma:
Posts: 17196
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Registered: 1/17/2002
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  posted on 3/24/2016 at 10:34 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
We need the Muslims to stand up and be accountable for this mess.


How so? I have a Muslim co-worker, two cubes down. He's lived here for fifteen years, wife, two kids. He's in our NCAA Tournament bracket pool. Should I go tell him he needs to stand up and stop the killing on the other side of the world?


That would be a start.

Of course I meant Islamic Nations. They have military and yet do nothing beyond words. They don't want to fix a thing. Muslims are divided and always have been and always will be. They are on one side or the other whether they openly admit it.

Our Muslim neighbors should all openly hate these radicals and openly speak out. Even in North America, they won't as they won't go against the other Muslims. Both sides have radicals on all levels and people fear speaking out.




Do you think that if the Saudis ordered their military to attack ISIS that the military would do so? Or, would they rebel and overthrow the Saudi government? I beieve the fear of rebellion is a major fear of the Saudis and any other Islamic nation that might be called on to fight terrorism.


Or perhaps they have no desire to go after ISIS or any other terrorist groups. Either way if you are not against them then you are an enemy.

Good to know that even our allies over there have no intention or desire to deal with terrorists.

 

____________________
Chicago Black Hawks - next season.


 
 


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