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Author: Subject: Let's Revisit EV's

Maximum Peach





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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 06:25 AM
Many years ago we had a thread here debating the viability of electric vehicles. Its been 8-10 years since then, and much has changed. Almost every manufacturer offers an EV in their current lineup, or has announced they soon will. So that would seem to indicate that EV's have become far more of a viable option for the average person, right?

Watch this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMBdpXGwVlY

This is newly posted within the last few weeks about the reality of day-to-day living with an EV in a city that's reasonably EV friendly.

I remember saying to Bhawk in that old thread that he'd probably never own an electric vehicle, and that probably his kids wouldn't either. Well, the kids part might be a stretch depending on how young they might be, but after watching this I feel more secure about the prediction that he'd (or most people of his/our generation) wouldn't. Who would want to live with this nonsense? Especially when you consider that a lot of the power is coming from sources that likely use fossil or atomic fuel, exactly what's being accomplished with all this hassle and time?

Maybe some of you already live with an EV. Is this what you're putting up with? Unless you have really favorable conditions (240v fast charging at home and a space at work with the same, or you live so close to work that your nightly home charge is enough for the day) why would anyone want to live with this?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 06:33 AM
I do drive a Prius for a couple of years now...

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 06:36 AM
But a hybrid is not an EV.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 06:45 AM
I know ow a guy with a Tesla who only drives locally because he works from home. He loves it. Has no issues. Sounds like a nice option for some folks who don’t drive too often.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 10:23 AM
Let's not.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 10:36 AM
I'm sure Rowland would be happy to discuss his experiences with his Teslas.

 

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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 01:08 PM
NOBODY KNOWS the Whipping post better than Rowland. I am guessing he will refrain. He would come here, give the pros & cons based on his experiences and would be hailed by many and shamed by a few. Then the name calling starts and we all get banned.

 

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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 04:26 PM
quote:
NOBODY KNOWS the Whipping post better than Rowland. I am guessing he will refrain. He would come here, give the pros & cons based on his experiences and would be hailed by many and shamed by a few. Then the name calling starts and we all get banned.


I can't think of a more reasonable and eloquent person to share their experiences.

 

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  posted on 11/15/2019 at 05:49 PM
quote:
quote:
NOBODY KNOWS the Whipping post better than Rowland. I am guessing he will refrain. He would come here, give the pros & cons based on his experiences and would be hailed by many and shamed by a few. Then the name calling starts and we all get banned.


I can't think of a more reasonable and eloquent person to share their experiences.
I'd love to hear his thoughts as well. But it gets hostile in here. We can't have folks being rude to the host.

 

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  posted on 11/16/2019 at 05:28 AM
Hey folks,

We've driven Tesla's for 3 years now and honestly, they are the best cars I've owned and driven. The only reason I'd buy another ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle would be if I couldn't afford a Tesla or they didn't make that style and I needed it (i.e. today I use an old Mercury Mountaineer for hauling stuff like trips to the dump / recycling center).

Lana and I saw the Tesla Model 3 reveal announcement 3.5 years ago and decided to put down the $1K deposit, it's refundable, why not? Then we learned that current Tesla owners would get first in line for Model 3's, so after about 3 months of soul searching we took a test drive of a Model S and got hooked, hard. Bought the S figuring we'd trade it when the 3 came out (we did).

I haven't owned super high end cars, the Lexus LS400 was probably the most high end. The Tesla's driving experience leaves it far behind. Forget about it being an EV, it's a dream to drive. Handles superbly, the low center of gravity makes it corner like it's on a rail. No transmission so instant torque means you can accelerate like a fool and even at highway speeds, just push the accelerator and wow, you're moving!

I'm a techie so of course we have fast charging at home. You can just install a 50A outlet and use the cord that comes with the car. Probably around $500 if you have an electrician do it. Or buy the Tesla wall connector and have a snappy looking charger that takes all of 8 seconds to pull off the hook and plug into your car.

This is one of Lana's favorite features - she calls the car "a boy toy" but for her, "I don't have to touch those nasty gas pumps" is a big plus.

As Lana says, "I get home, I plug in my phone, I plug in my car."

In the morning we have 280 miles of range as we usually charge to 90%. For a trip, set for 100% and we get 310 miles of range.

Long trips? No problem. We've driven to FL from NC and there are Tesla superchargers every 150 miles or so. If your style is "hell no, we're not stopping for anything" then you won't be happy. Personally, after 3 or 4 hours of driving I'm ready for a break and stopping for 30 minutes to stretch, get a drink, have lunch, potty break, check email, is a welcome respite from white line fever. And with the latest release of Tesla's software, if we just want to chill, we can watch Netflix or Hulu as well as browse the web on the 19" wide screen in the car.

Which is one of my fave "boy toy" aspects - new firmware is released regularly and our car keeps getting better. New self-driving features (one of my personal fascinations). New entertainment options (boy toy stuff like Cuphead and Beach Buggy Racing). Better performance (improved range, breaking, power among other things). New navigation options (already one of the best voice rec systems I've used - push a button on the steering wheel and say "navigate to Starbucks in Wake Forest" and boom, your route is set. Big moving map display on the wide touchscreen.

And did I mention the handling? :-) Just so much fun to drive. After driving the Tesla, if I drive the Lexus ES350 it feels like, well, sorry, a garbage truck. Loose and sloppy handling by comparison. Only a slight exaggeration, I think it's the relative experience that makes the Lexus feel worse than it really is by normal standards.

So far, all of our friends who have driven our Tesla want one. It's still not a cheap car by any means, but you can lease an entry level Model 3 for $399 a month which makes it within range for a lot of folks compared to just a couple years ago.

Tesla's also get tip-top safety ratings by both US and European agencies. The Model S was awarded Motor Trend's "Best Car of all the MT Car of the Year" awards. Literally the best car they've ever tested. The low CG from the heavy battery and the "no engine in front so big crumple zone" are factors, as well as all the driving safety features.

Self-driving? No, it's not 100% self-driving yet but I love, love, love the autopilot feature. I use the "autosteer" and "traffic aware cruise control" every time I drive. You have to pay attention, it's not perfect, but it's really, really good and keeps getting better as you get new neural net downloads that incorporate learning from the fleet. Statistics show that Tesla's driven with autopilot turned on have fewer accidents than without. It's like autopilot on a plane - it handles some of the drudge work so you can focus on other parts of driving. You don't expect a pilot to go to sleep or text instead of flying the plane, and it's no different here.

Maintenance is very low - the only things that regularly wear out are tires and windshield wipers. Even brakes last much longer because regenerative braking can take you almost to a full stop, and a firmware update coming soon will actually get to the full stop by turning the brakes on at the end of the roll.

Notice I never once talked about "saving the planet." That's a whole 'nother story and we could get into it, but for now, I'm just saying this is the best car I've owned and driven and given the choice, hands-down the car I'd buy again. And I'm not alone there - Bloomberg just published a survey of Tesla Model 3 owners and a mind-blowing 98% say they would buy again.

YMMV :-)

Hit that note,
Rowland

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/16/2019 at 09:06 AM
Good info. and thanks for sharing Rowland. I'm most curious about electric vehicle performance in specific climates like that of very cold and snowy upstate, NY where I live.

We here in way upstate, NY (I'm not talking White Plains or Cooperstown...I'm talking Watertown) experience very large amounts of snow and extremely cold temperatures for several months at a time and so I'm wondering how durable over the long term the battery, propulsion, charging and braking systems in electric vehicles actually are at this point in time.

Four or five winters like the ones we experience do a number on vehicles. The road salt alone will decimate nearly any car over time if driven enough. And not just the body of the vehicle. Road salt and the briney mix used by the NYS DOT rots everything on a car.

The people I talk to who own electric cars in my area claim they're incredible and love them. One in fact was a women who owned a white Tesla SUV...(not sure what the model was). She loved it but had only owned it for a few months and hadn't yet driven it during a "North Country" winter.

Personally I'm waiting to have the option to purchase a mid-size fully electric SUV. For instance a larger version of the currently very popular with Fleet operators Chevy BOLT...(not to be confused with the now no longer built car the Chevy VOLT).

From what I understand what's really pushing the development and growth in sales of EV's is the ever growing demand in the Fleet and rental markets. Year after year growth since electric vehicles over the long term are much cheaper for fleet operators to operate.

 

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  posted on 11/16/2019 at 11:20 AM
quote:
I do drive a Prius for a couple of years now...


We bought a Prius for my wife back in 2004. It later became my daughter's car. Still running like a charm & on original battery pack.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/16/2019 at 12:32 PM
Thanks for taking up my facebook invite, Rowland.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 11/16/2019 at 12:41 PM
quote:
Notice I never once talked about "saving the planet."


I did indeed notice that - great write up, sounds like a fun as hell ride, man. And all without any Green stuff for folks to get all worked up over.



[Edited on 11/17/2019 by BrerRabbit]

 

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  posted on 11/17/2019 at 04:34 AM
quote:
Good info. and thanks for sharing Rowland. I'm most curious about electric vehicle performance in specific climates like that of very cold and snowy upstate, NY where I live.



It's such a great product that I'm always happy to "Talk Tesla."

I grew up in Ossining NY, then Poughkeepsie, and my parents lived in Elizaville. Not far upstate, but enough to understand snow and salt. I haven't lived there in years so I can't speak from firsthand experience about road salt, but I keep up with Tesla news and I haven't seen complaints about salt so I would just take the same precautions as with any car - a good rinse of the underside when you wash the car.

One of the ways Tesla maintains very long battery pack life is keep the pack cool in summer and warm in winter. Warming the batteries takes energy, so plugging the car in when home will reduce drain on the battery. We're not talking a huge hit here, but your range might decrease 10 to 20% if it's super cold and you're not plugging in at all between charges.

Tesla has a page on winter driving tips here: https://www.tesla.com/support/winter-driving-tips

Tesla's are very popular in Scandinavia and you can find lots of videos and stories from owners there about winter driving. Here's one and it's from 4 or 5 years back and things have only improved since then: https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-superowner-arctic-circle

An excerpt:
Another advantage that the Roadster and Model S have in Norway, however, is their performance in cold weather driving conditions.

“We found out that it’s a super winter car,” says Jens. “It’s so fantastic. It’s much easier and better than an ordinary car.” He likes that you can heat the Model S remotely via an app, so that there’s no ice or snow on the car when you’re ready to drive it. He also says the winter range is almost the same as the summer range. In December, he and Røsnes took the Model S to an ice hotel in Sweden, 200km from Narvik. The temperature dropped to -40 degrees Celsius. It was so cold that the trains couldn’t operate and the diesel in the buses froze. But the Model S was just fine."

The dual motor Tesla has All Wheel Drive (AWD) and very smart traction control. Winter driving performance is excellent. The Model 3 Performance car has "track mode" and this Popular Mechanics article tells how it performed in rally conditions:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a26445757/tesla-model -3-winter-driving-rally-car/

He concludes: "...for now let’s just enjoy the fact that the automotive stability control system, traditional destroyer of fun, has mutated into this: Track Mode, the world’s finest instability control system."

All the best,
Rowland

 

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  posted on 11/17/2019 at 04:37 AM
quote:
Thanks for taking up my facebook invite, Rowland.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention Ron

 

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  posted on 11/17/2019 at 04:41 AM
quote:
quote:
Notice I never once talked about "saving the planet."

I did indeed notice that - great write up, sounds like a fun as hell ride, man. And all without any Green stuff for folks to get all worked up over.



Musk's goal was to make an EV that was also best in class in safety, performance and handling, and to load it with features to make it super fun. I think he's done extremely well in a mind-blowingly tough industry for a startup. They are now selling as many cars in one quarter (almost 100K) as they sold in a year just three years ago. Explosive growth without a dime spent on advertising so far.

 

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  posted on 11/17/2019 at 04:44 AM
I'll stop spamming this thread now but here's an example of how the car keeps getting better with over-the-air updates (no need to go to a service center). The latest firmware improved the Model 3 mid-range's 0 to 60 time by 0.7s, from 5.6s at launch to 4.9s now:

https://electrek.co/2019/11/16/tesla-model-3-mid-range-now-goes-0-60mph-in- 4-9s-down-from-5-6-at-launch/


 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 11/17/2019 at 08:38 AM
quote:
quote:
Good info. and thanks for sharing Rowland. I'm most curious about electric vehicle performance in specific climates like that of very cold and snowy upstate, NY where I live.



It's such a great product that I'm always happy to "Talk Tesla."

I grew up in Ossining NY, then Poughkeepsie, and my parents lived in Elizaville. Not far upstate, but enough to understand snow and salt. I haven't lived there in years so I can't speak from firsthand experience about road salt, but I keep up with Tesla news and I haven't seen complaints about salt so I would just take the same precautions as with any car - a good rinse of the underside when you wash the car.

One of the ways Tesla maintains very long battery pack life is keep the pack cool in summer and warm in winter. Warming the batteries takes energy, so plugging the car in when home will reduce drain on the battery. We're not talking a huge hit here, but your range might decrease 10 to 20% if it's super cold and you're not plugging in at all between charges.

Tesla has a page on winter driving tips here: https://www.tesla.com/support/winter-driving-tips

Tesla's are very popular in Scandinavia and you can find lots of videos and stories from owners there about winter driving. Here's one and it's from 4 or 5 years back and things have only improved since then: https://www.tesla.com/blog/tesla-superowner-arctic-circle

An excerpt:
Another advantage that the Roadster and Model S have in Norway, however, is their performance in cold weather driving conditions.

“We found out that it’s a super winter car,” says Jens. “It’s so fantastic. It’s much easier and better than an ordinary car.” He likes that you can heat the Model S remotely via an app, so that there’s no ice or snow on the car when you’re ready to drive it. He also says the winter range is almost the same as the summer range. In December, he and Røsnes took the Model S to an ice hotel in Sweden, 200km from Narvik. The temperature dropped to -40 degrees Celsius. It was so cold that the trains couldn’t operate and the diesel in the buses froze. But the Model S was just fine."

The dual motor Tesla has All Wheel Drive (AWD) and very smart traction control. Winter driving performance is excellent. The Model 3 Performance car has "track mode" and this Popular Mechanics article tells how it performed in rally conditions:
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a26445757/tesla-model -3-winter-driving-rally-car/

He concludes: "...for now let’s just enjoy the fact that the automotive stability control system, traditional destroyer of fun, has mutated into this: Track Mode, the world’s finest instability control system."

All the best,
Rowland



Thanks for the clarification and links Rowland. I just might have to consider the Tesla SUV in the near future. Maybe a retirement gift to myself in a few years.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 11/17/2019 at 03:40 PM
I know there is a HUGE difference in technology, especially after all these years but when I photographed hockey tournaments I found my fully charged flash batteries lost about 25% of their power going from room temperature to working in an ice rink.

I kept my battery pack inside my coat to give it as much body warmth as possible but that only helped a small amount.

I'd also get what little recharging I could do between games and ice resurfacing.

 

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