Thread: President Trump and the Republicans deliver major Tax Cut and Jobs Act

Muleman1994 - 12/20/2017 at 06:06 PM

The Tax Cut and Jobs Act has passed in Congress.

President Trump and the Republicans deliver for The American People while The Democrats lie and cry.



pops42 - 12/20/2017 at 06:10 PM

quote:
The Tax Cut and Jobs Act has passed in Congress.

President Trump and the Republicans deliver for The American People while The Democrats lie and cry.



26% of Americans approve of it!, theres a real victory


BoytonBrother - 12/20/2017 at 06:23 PM

quote:
President Trump and the Republicans deliver


He’s getting aroused folks.


IPowrie - 12/20/2017 at 08:50 PM

Michael Bloomberg on the tax cuts

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/tax-cuts-alone-wont-answer-u-s-economic-n eeds-bloomberg-says


2112 - 12/20/2017 at 09:46 PM

The GOP ain't stupid. They just lined the pockets of billionaires and huge corporate donors, and gave a small tax break that helps mostly those in red states. Then they set the tax cuts for individuals to expire in 7 years, while keeping the tax cuts for those at the top. Why expire the tax cuts for the non millionaires in 7 years? Because they know they likely won't be in power at the time and they will somehow be able to blame the Democrats for the tax increase that everybody except those at the top will see. In fact, the tax rates will expire, but the deductions that most in the middle class enjoy will not return. Again, very cleaver. The billionaires will continue to enjoy their tax breaks while everyone else will get a tax increase, and they will blame it on the Democrats. Bravo!

[Edited on 12/20/2017 by 2112]


StratDal - 12/20/2017 at 09:48 PM

quote:
The Tax Cut and Jobs Act has passed in Congress.

President Trump and the Republicans deliver for The American People while The Democrats lie and cry.





I'm not a Democrat and I'm completely against this piece of poor legislation. It has elements that clearly benefit one portion of society plus will increase the deficit. Do you have any idea how long it takes to count a trillion at a buck a second?


gina - 12/21/2017 at 12:25 AM


https://waysandmeansforms.house.gov/uploadedfiles/tax_cuts_and_jobs_act_sec tion_by_section_hr1.pdf


nebish - 12/21/2017 at 01:31 PM

Heard Corker say this morning the amount potentially added to the debt is $500 billion. The Democrats stick with the $1.5 trillion figure. I don't know who to believe on anything anymore, but even a supporter of the bill, and supposed concern for debt and deficit increases, admits that it could add to the deficit. Not surprisingly the Republicans and Democrats each favor different ways of calculating the figures to suit one's position.

Corporate tax reform if good, as long as we get the good benefits and results of such reform. Time will tell. This issue along could've garnered decent bipartisan support I imagine.

The Democrats are using an interesting, and to their credit, effective argument on this, saying that 87% of the benefits goes to the 1%...but a large component of the benefits is going to corporations not simply the often demonized and always hated 1% of wealthy individuals Democrats so rely on dragging through the mud. If we were to strip away the corporate benefits and just look at individual and married tax filers I wonder what that % comes down to?

Some have said saving $600 for somebody how earns $70,000 is "peanuts" and "not even worth it". $600 is real money. Not worth it, as opposed to continually paying $600 more every year?

I will say the corporate tax reform makes some sense. The individual cuts I think come at a curious time just because as I can remember the Bush tax cuts and the Regan tax cuts were at times the economy needed a boost. We are experiencing decent growth and low unemployment currently, so atleast compared to the other two major tax cut bills the timing on this one seems quite different. Is it possible that this bill moves us from 3% GDP growth to some higher rate? If the economy is going to grow and if businesses are going to hire more people, with historically low unemployment where are the new workers going to be found? (technically speaking about the numbers, perhaps not in reality of the actual unemployed persons which some think is quite a bit higher still)


Muleman1994 - 12/22/2017 at 04:12 PM

quote:
quote:
The Tax Cut and Jobs Act has passed in Congress.

President Trump and the Republicans deliver for The American People while The Democrats lie and cry.



26% of Americans approve of it!, theres a real victory



Only 18% approved of President Reagan's 1986 tax cut and the result was over a decade of strong economic growth and millions of new jobs.


Muleman1994 - 12/22/2017 at 04:12 PM

The left simply cannot stop lying:
“Trump’s Tax Cuts only benefit his billionaire buddies and penalizes the middle class”

Utter crap.

What the left doesn’t mention in their lie is that the minimal rate decrease tax rate they use has no effect on the top earners. The rate the left screams about is on wages which is not a source of income for the top earners. Their income comes from capital gains and the tax rate on that income does not change in the Tax Cut and Jobs act.

The left also does not mention the doubling of the standard deduction and almost doubling of the child tax credit which is a huge benefit to the middle class and the poor.


Muleman1994 - 12/22/2017 at 04:13 PM

The Democrats have been lying daily for months about President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act.

So outrageously false even The Washington Post’s fact-checker, Glenn Kessler (Pinocchio) skewered the Democrat’s lies:

Senate Democrats falsely claim GOP tax plan will raise taxes for most working-class families
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/11/02/senate-democ rats-falsely-claim-gop-tax-plan-will-raise-taxes-for-most-working-class-fam ilies/?utm_term=.73d9d60783b8

Democratic Policy and Communications Committee
Talking points (lies) for Democrats to use when running to the corrupt liberal media:
https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/50%20State%20Report%20-%20Ta x%20FINAL.PDF

One source of Democrat lies:
Republicans Push Tax Hike on Millions of Working Families
https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/645d77d3-592a-4221-b57f-f41f 4421f9b5/tax-increase-working-families.pdf

Another source of Democrat lies:
The “Tax Policy Center” has been discredited as a political action arm of the left and who’s report is flatly false.

The “Tax Policy Center” is a joint operation of the liberal-leaning Urban Institute and Brookings Institution and funded by George Soros.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/model-estimates/unified-framework-september- 2017/t17-0225-unified-framework-distribution-federal-tax

Embarrassed by the above false report, the Democrats issued a “clearer” report that admits that most people would have a tax cut:
Caught in the first lie the Democrats were forced to issue a “Special Report”:
SPECIAL 50-STATE REPORT: HOW THE REPUBLICAN TAX GIVEAWAY TO THE WEALTHY WOULD HURT FAMILIES
https://www.democrats.senate.gov/dpcc/press-releases/special-50-state-repor t-how-the-republican-tax-giveaway-to-the-wealthy-would-hurt-families


Sang - 12/22/2017 at 04:32 PM

Are you a spokesman now? LOL

Repeating lies over and over again don't make them true.....


nebish - 12/22/2017 at 06:29 PM

quote:
The left simply cannot stop lying:
“Trump’s Tax Cuts only benefit his billionaire buddies and penalizes the middle class”

Utter crap.

What the left doesn’t mention in their lie is that the minimal rate decrease tax rate they use has no effect on the top earners. The rate the left screams about is on wages which is not a source of income for the top earners. Their income comes from capital gains and the tax rate on that income does not change in the Tax Cut and Jobs act.

The left also does not mention the doubling of the standard deduction and almost doubling of the child tax credit which is a huge benefit to the middle class and the poor.




If that is the case then why not just leave the 39.6% rate rather than reducing it to 37%? Atleast some of the optics of the plan could be argued differently then. They should've left the top rate where it was.


MartinD28 - 12/22/2017 at 06:57 PM

So much for the GOP deficit hawks. That's all we've heard for years from the GOP...especially under Obama. What about Corker and his not voting for the bill if it adds one cent. Guess he rolled over like a puppy dog.

"In an exclusive interview on Meet the Press, Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) tells Chuck Todd that if the GOP’s new tax reform plan adds a penny to the deficit he won’t support it."

The GOP talking points are supply side rehashed theory that probably won't create the anticipated growth & offsets. That's why the provision for individual taxes to go up if targets aren't met. But that's not the case for corporations.

Yes, the GOP deficit hawks went the way of GOP compassionate conservatism and the dodo bird - three entities that are now history.

Want to bet the GOP deficit hawks will make a recovery if a Democrat is elected to be prez in 2020.


BoytonBrother - 12/22/2017 at 07:07 PM

quote:
The left simply cannot stop lying:
“Trump’s Tax Cuts only benefit his billionaire buddies and penalizes the middle class”

Utter crap.

What the left doesn’t mention in their lie is that the minimal rate decrease tax rate they use has no effect on the top earners. The rate the left screams about is on wages which is not a source of income for the top earners. Their income comes from capital gains and the tax rate on that income does not change in the Tax Cut and Jobs act.

The left also does not mention the doubling of the standard deduction and almost doubling of the child tax credit which is a huge benefit to the middle class and the poor.


If you hate the left, why do you think about them so much?


nebish - 12/22/2017 at 07:10 PM

I guess Republicans only care about debt and deficit when they are talking about entitlements?

Honestly I don't think most Republicans care about debt and deficit anyway...as long as they are the ones in power.

It should matter though, it matters to me, it makes sense...don't spend more than you receive.

That's just the thing with the projections. I don't know who to believe or trust on it. And really there are so many variables that are unpredictable and can change to make all the projections unreliable.

But one thing is for sure I think, raising taxes doesn't guarantee more tax revenue and cutting taxes doesn't guarantee less tax revenue. There is something to the behavior of the tax payer in light of having to tax plan to avoid paying higher taxes or being able to spend or invest more in light of less tax liability. It boils down to what the government decides (or is obligated) to spend the money on - so whatever the incoming tax receipts are is what should dictate what they spend.


Bhawk - 12/22/2017 at 08:10 PM

The only way this "works" is if the top earners and corporations actually do trickle it down and actually take the savings and actually create jobs. On the state level, this did not happen.

Time and only time will tell.


jkeller - 12/22/2017 at 10:18 PM

quote:
I guess Republicans only care about debt and deficit when they are talking about entitlements?

Honestly I don't think most Republicans care about debt and deficit anyway...as long as they are the ones in power.

It should matter though, it matters to me, it makes sense...don't spend more than you receive.

That's just the thing with the projections. I don't know who to believe or trust on it. And really there are so many variables that are unpredictable and can change to make all the projections unreliable.

But one thing is for sure I think, raising taxes doesn't guarantee more tax revenue and cutting taxes doesn't guarantee less tax revenue. There is something to the behavior of the tax payer in light of having to tax plan to avoid paying higher taxes or being able to spend or invest more in light of less tax liability. It boils down to what the government decides (or is obligated) to spend the money on - so whatever the incoming tax receipts are is what should dictate what they spend.


Trickle down has never worked before. There is no reason to think it will work now. Republican projections are based on the rosy theory that by getting tax breaks, they will create jobs. BS. Jobs are created when the consumers are spending. Consumers spend when they have money. The paltry tax breaks consumers are getting will not help that much. When those tax breaks expire, a recession is sure to follow.


lukester420 - 12/23/2017 at 03:46 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
The Tax Cut and Jobs Act has passed in Congress.

President Trump and the Republicans deliver for The American People while The Democrats lie and cry.



26% of Americans approve of it!, theres a real victory



Only 18% approved of President Reagan's 1986 tax cut and the result was over a decade of strong economic growth and millions of new jobs.


Allow me take on of your favorite quotes, “Wrong. try again son,”
if you’re too stupid to understand that these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago...then good god I really want whatever drugs you take. I enjoy escaping reality too!

[Edited on 12/23/2017 by lukester420]


nebish - 12/23/2017 at 05:24 AM

quote:


Trickle down has never worked before. There is no reason to think it will work now. Republican projections are based on the rosy theory that by getting tax breaks, they will create jobs. BS. Jobs are created when the consumers are spending. Consumers spend when they have money. The paltry tax breaks consumers are getting will not help that much. When those tax breaks expire, a recession is sure to follow.


The individual cuts expire in 2025. Congress could extend or renew them depending on who's in power.

But so you are saying that recession is sure to follow in 2025...is that because taxes will increase and then are you saying higher taxes = recession. I don't think you are, but see how that sounds?

Give me 8 years of continued economic growth, if you are saying we have 8 more years until a recession I'll be very very very happy with that. Chances are we get a dip, contraction, recession to some degree or another before that. Our current period of expansion started in 2009. If we run until 2025 that is going to be a hell of a run! The current period we are in is about to become the second longest in US history!


nebish - 12/23/2017 at 05:30 AM

quote:

Allow me take on of your favorite quotes, “Wrong. try again son,”
if you’re too stupid to understand that these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago...then good god I really want whatever drugs you take. I enjoy escaping reality too!

[Edited on 12/23/2017 by lukester420]


You are saying specifically the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 led to the great recession? That isn't the case. What evidence do you have to support your position?


lukester420 - 12/23/2017 at 06:49 PM

quote:
quote:

Allow me take on of your favorite quotes, “Wrong. try again son,”
if you’re too stupid to understand that these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago...then good god I really want whatever drugs you take. I enjoy escaping reality too!

[Edited on 12/23/2017 by lukester420]


You are saying specifically the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 led to the great recession? That isn't the case. What evidence do you have to support your position?


Interesting, I need to show evidence to back my claims, yet you provide nothing but your own opinion to support your position.
The fact that you read that and immediately felt the need to defend the Bush administration speaks volumes.
In my opinion, it was not necessarily just the Bush administration and the tax cuts but the last oh, 35 years of gov’t policies that allowed for Wallstreet, lenders and other big business leaders to operate with impunity. Massive corruption, conflicts of interest and lack of regulation led to the crash. These are all things that are avoidable if you don’t subscribe to the laissez-Faire horse crap of letting crooks regulate themselves in the hope that they will just, out of the goodness of their own hearts not be greedy schmucks and stimulate anyone’s pockets but their own.

Since it is irrational to argue with someone who subscribes to a different set of facts, I do not expect to change anyone’s opinions since this forum proves this on an daily basis, but here ya go.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/20/business/worldbusiness/20iht-prexy.4.1632 1064.html
http://prospect.org/article/bubble-economy
https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2011/05/19/how-the-government-cre ated-a-financial-crisis/#72dfb8b321fb
http://www.aei.org/publication/how-government-failure-caused-the-great-rece ssion/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111904199404576536930606933332
http://www.heritage.org/government-regulation/commentary/government-policie s-caused-the-financial-crisis-and-made-the

[Edited on 12/23/2017 by lukester420]


nebish - 12/23/2017 at 07:11 PM

Haha, you're funny. You said "these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago" in a thread about a tax cut bill. What is one supposed to take from that? I had no way to know what was inside your head beyond what you typed, what other actions are in this tax cut bill that I might've drawn some broader meaning from for your post? The last time "these kinds of actions" took place were the 2001 and 2003 Bush-era tax bills and had nothing to do with the great recession as you claimed, or I thought you claimed. Democrats have liked to paint that picture, but it is false as described here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/09/30/clintons-cla im-that-the-bush-tax-cuts-played-a-large-part-in-sparking-2008-recession/?u tm_term=.32fe7b01083d

Now if you would've originally stated that it was something larger than just tax reform that led to the great recession, I wouldn't have raised a peep, we could actually agree on alot of those points. Your provided links are excellent snapshots and review of history. And I thank you for those for reminders and reference. But that wasn't the impression you gave, or I took, from your post. Blame you for not saying what you meant, or blame me for being too narrow in interpreting your words.

And yes, I will to this day defend, on principle the Bush-era tax cuts. My only objection was doing so on a war-footing which as we know happened not long after passage of part 1 of those cuts. I'm glad you now have "volumes" to take away from that opinion whatever that does for you going forward I don't know.


Muleman1994 - 12/23/2017 at 07:24 PM

quote:
quote:
I guess Republicans only care about debt and deficit when they are talking about entitlements?

Honestly I don't think most Republicans care about debt and deficit anyway...as long as they are the ones in power.

It should matter though, it matters to me, it makes sense...don't spend more than you receive.

That's just the thing with the projections. I don't know who to believe or trust on it. And really there are so many variables that are unpredictable and can change to make all the projections unreliable.

But one thing is for sure I think, raising taxes doesn't guarantee more tax revenue and cutting taxes doesn't guarantee less tax revenue. There is something to the behavior of the tax payer in light of having to tax plan to avoid paying higher taxes or being able to spend or invest more in light of less tax liability. It boils down to what the government decides (or is obligated) to spend the money on - so whatever the incoming tax receipts are is what should dictate what they spend.


Trickle down has never worked before. There is no reason to think it will work now. Republican projections are based on the rosy theory that by getting tax breaks, they will create jobs. BS. Jobs are created when the consumers are spending. Consumers spend when they have money. The paltry tax breaks consumers are getting will not help that much. When those tax breaks expire, a recession is sure to follow.



Wow, the left is talking about the national debt and throwing a faux -fit.

While Obama adding more to the national debt than all previous 43 Presidents combined we heard nothing from the left.

Okay, President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act might add about $1.5 Trillion to the national debt. However, the growth in GDP because of the strong economy the Tax Cut and Jobs Act will bring will easily wipeout that $1.5 Trillion.

Yet again The American People, President Trump and The Republicans score another major win and the lefties just lie can cry.



BoytonBrother - 12/23/2017 at 07:48 PM

If you hate Obama and the left, why do you think about them so much?


Muleman1994 - 12/23/2017 at 07:59 PM

quote:
If you hate Obama and the left, why do you think about them so much?


The complete failure of Obama must be exposed as well as the damage done to our country.

The left has nothing to offer. It would be interesting to compare President Trump and The Republican's Tax Cut and Jobs Act to that offered by The Democrats but the Democrat had no plan.


Muleman1994 - 12/23/2017 at 08:01 PM

The rhetoric from the left is destroyed the actual results.
I prefer results.

Since president Trump’s election:

- The Stock Market has risen 25%. The majority of American’s pension plans are invested in the stock market.
- GDP is has risen to 3.2% for two straight quarters and is project to remain at above that.
- Unemployment has fallen to almost a flat 4% and the country is approaching full employment.
- The 2 million new jobs added are almost all full-time and at above living wage.
- Many major companies are retuning to The U.S. and making major investments and hiring hundreds of thousands of new employees.

Within hours of Congress passing the Tax Cut and Jobs Act:

- AT&T was the first company to go public with its plans to pass along coming tax savings to workers, saying once the tax bill is passed it would pay a special $1,000 bonus to more than 200,000 of its non-management workers. Front-line managers, the company said, will also be included in the bonus pool. The telecom giant also confirmed it would invest $1 billion more in the U.S. in 2018.
- Comcast announced that it would award $1,000 bonuses to more than 100,000 employees, which would include frontline and non-executive employees.
- Fifth Third Bancorp, a regional bank based in Cincinnati, said it will raise the minimum wage for all of its nearly 3,000 hourly employees to $15, and would distribute a bonus of $1,000 for more than 13,500 employees by the end of the year.
- Wells Fargo, said it would boost its minimum wage to $15 per hour, an 11% increase from its current hourly rate of $13.50.
- Aerospace giant Boeing said it would move forward with $300 million in investments as a result of the new tax law, including $100 million in employee training and education and $100 million to enhance Boeing facilities as part of its "workforce of the future" initiative.
- Aerospace giant Boeing said it would move forward with $300 million in investments as a result of the new tax law, including $100 million in employee training and education and $100 million to enhance Boeing facilities as part of its "workforce of the future" initiative.


BoytonBrother - 12/24/2017 at 12:43 AM

quote:
The complete failure of Obama must be exposed as well as the damage done to our country.


Why must this happen?


pops42 - 12/24/2017 at 01:11 AM

quote:
quote:
If you hate Obama and the left, why do you think about them so much?


The complete failure of Obama must be exposed as well as the damage done to our country.

The left has nothing to offer. It would be interesting to compare President Trump and The Republican's Tax Cut and Jobs Act to that offered by The Democrats but the Democrat had no plan.


You are the last idiot hanging on to a sinking ship.


lukester420 - 12/24/2017 at 03:36 AM

quote:
Haha, you're funny. You said "these are the kind of actions that led to the massive economic crash 10 years ago" in a thread about a tax cut bill. What is one supposed to take from that? I had no way to know what was inside your head beyond what you typed, what other actions are in this tax cut bill that I might've drawn some broader meaning from for your post? The last time "these kinds of actions" took place were the 2001 and 2003 Bush-era tax bills and had nothing to do with the great recession as you claimed, or I thought you claimed. Democrats have liked to paint that picture, but it is false as described here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/09/30/clintons-cla im-that-the-bush-tax-cuts-played-a-large-part-in-sparking-2008-recession/?u tm_term=.32fe7b01083d

Now if you would've originally stated that it was something larger than just tax reform that led to the great recession, I wouldn't have raised a peep, we could actually agree on alot of those points. Your provided links are excellent snapshots and review of history. And I thank you for those for reminders and reference. But that wasn't the impression you gave, or I took, from your post. Blame you for not saying what you meant, or blame me for being too narrow in interpreting your words.

And yes, I will to this day defend, on principle the Bush-era tax cuts. My only objection was doing so on a war-footing which as we know happened not long after passage of part 1 of those cuts. I'm glad you now have "volumes" to take away from that opinion whatever that does for you going forward I don't know.

I shall cherish these volumes. I did indeed post in a way that did not convey what I wanted to say, so I do blame me. But still, Buck Fush.


nebish - 12/24/2017 at 03:50 AM

quote:



Wow, the left is talking about the national debt and throwing a faux -fit.

While Obama adding more to the national debt than all previous 43 Presidents combined we heard nothing from the left.

Okay, President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act might add about $1.5 Trillion to the national debt. However, the growth in GDP because of the strong economy the Tax Cut and Jobs Act will bring will easily wipeout that $1.5 Trillion.

Yet again The American People, President Trump and The Republicans score another major win and the lefties just lie can cry.





In fairness a good bit of the debt added under Obama was actually set in stone from the last few Bush years. Obama inherited a mess of epic proportions, but the ship did get turned around. Trump was set up for success. Now maybe the growth under Obama was slower or smaller than ideal, but it was a growing economy none-the-less and Trump should benefit from that. Which is much different than what GW or Obama inherited upon taking office.


nebish - 12/24/2017 at 03:54 AM

quote:
I shall cherish these volumes. I did indeed post in a way that did not convey what I wanted to say, so I do blame me. But still, Buck Fush


Good. I enjoy the interaction here as well.

And really I jumped the gun since your reply was to muleman, but I thought I could offer a better response than he would or could.

I look forward to our future posts. Here is to hoping the best for the holidays for everyone, left-right-and middle. Cheers.


Muleman1994 - 12/27/2017 at 06:07 PM

quote:
quote:



Wow, the left is talking about the national debt and throwing a faux -fit.

While Obama adding more to the national debt than all previous 43 Presidents combined we heard nothing from the left.

Okay, President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act might add about $1.5 Trillion to the national debt. However, the growth in GDP because of the strong economy the Tax Cut and Jobs Act will bring will easily wipeout that $1.5 Trillion.

Yet again The American People, President Trump and The Republicans score another major win and the lefties just lie can cry.





In fairness a good bit of the debt added under Obama was actually set in stone from the last few Bush years. Obama inherited a mess of epic proportions, but the ship did get turned around. Trump was set up for success. Now maybe the growth under Obama was slower or smaller than ideal, but it was a growing economy none-the-less and Trump should benefit from that. Which is much different than what GW or Obama inherited upon taking office.



The U.S. economy was anemic at best under Obama and he added more to the national debt than all 42 previous Presidents combined.
With President Trump's election the economy took off fast due to great leadership, confidence and a solid plan all of which were missing under Obama.


2112 - 12/27/2017 at 06:11 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:



Wow, the left is talking about the national debt and throwing a faux -fit.

While Obama adding more to the national debt than all previous 43 Presidents combined we heard nothing from the left.

Okay, President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act might add about $1.5 Trillion to the national debt. However, the growth in GDP because of the strong economy the Tax Cut and Jobs Act will bring will easily wipeout that $1.5 Trillion.

Yet again The American People, President Trump and The Republicans score another major win and the lefties just lie can cry.





In fairness a good bit of the debt added under Obama was actually set in stone from the last few Bush years. Obama inherited a mess of epic proportions, but the ship did get turned around. Trump was set up for success. Now maybe the growth under Obama was slower or smaller than ideal, but it was a growing economy none-the-less and Trump should benefit from that. Which is much different than what GW or Obama inherited upon taking office.



The U.S. economy was anemic at best under Obama and he added more to the national debt than all 42 previous Presidents combined.
With President Trump's election the economy took off fast due to great leadership, confidence and a solid plan all of which were missing under Obama.




It doesn't matter how many times you repeat these lies, they still remain lies.


Muleman1994 - 12/27/2017 at 06:15 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:



Wow, the left is talking about the national debt and throwing a faux -fit.

While Obama adding more to the national debt than all previous 43 Presidents combined we heard nothing from the left.

Okay, President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act might add about $1.5 Trillion to the national debt. However, the growth in GDP because of the strong economy the Tax Cut and Jobs Act will bring will easily wipeout that $1.5 Trillion.

Yet again The American People, President Trump and The Republicans score another major win and the lefties just lie can cry.





In fairness a good bit of the debt added under Obama was actually set in stone from the last few Bush years. Obama inherited a mess of epic proportions, but the ship did get turned around. Trump was set up for success. Now maybe the growth under Obama was slower or smaller than ideal, but it was a growing economy none-the-less and Trump should benefit from that. Which is much different than what GW or Obama inherited upon taking office.



The U.S. economy was anemic at best under Obama and he added more to the national debt than all 42 previous Presidents combined.
With President Trump's election the economy took off fast due to great leadership, confidence and a solid plan all of which were missing under Obama.




It doesn't matter how many times you repeat these lies, they still remain lies.


How would you know?
You have posted lie after lie and have been proven to be one of the leading uninformed here.

The facts prove the President Trump economy is rocking.


BoytonBrother - 12/27/2017 at 08:01 PM

quote:
The U.S. economy was anemic at best under Obama and he added more to the national debt than all 42 previous Presidents combined.


Fake news. Our economy has been improving steadily since 2009.

quote:
With President Trump's election the economy took off fast due to great leadership, confidence and a solid plan all of which were missing under Obama.


Missing? Obamacare was built with such a strong foundation, that even your king couldn’t knock it down. Plus, he passed it without having full Democratic control in Washington. Trump has a fully Republican Washington and STILL couldn’t repeal nor replaced. Obama got more votes in each election too. Trump can’t hold Obama’s jock strap. Trump is old, ugly, and was rejected by women in school, just like you! I’d hate Obama too if I was Trump.


nebish - 12/28/2017 at 12:01 AM

quote:
quote:
The U.S. economy was anemic at best under Obama and he added more to the national debt than all 42 previous Presidents combined.


Fake news. Our economy has been improving steadily since 2009.

quote:
With President Trump's election the economy took off fast due to great leadership, confidence and a solid plan all of which were missing under Obama.


Missing? Obamacare was built with such a strong foundation, that even your king couldn’t knock it down. Plus, he passed it without having full Democratic control in Washington. Trump has a fully Republican Washington and STILL couldn’t repeal nor replaced. Obama got more votes in each election too. Trump can’t hold Obama’s jock strap. Trump is old, ugly, and was rejected by women in school, just like you! I’d hate Obama too if I was Trump.



Without full Democratic control?

This ofcourse is not the case. After the 2008 elections, the Democrats had a 257-199 edge in the House and a 57-41 edge in the Senate (plus two Independents who were essentially Democrats), they were 1 vote short of a filibuster proof majority, which they got in 2009. How is that not "full Democratic control"?


BoytonBrother - 12/28/2017 at 02:06 PM

I stand corrected. The point remains - Obama is the person Trump so desperately wants to be, but isn’t, and that enrages him. Sad!


Muleman1994 - 1/4/2018 at 11:19 PM

The DJI closed at 25,075.13 today.
President Trump keeps delivering for The American People.



2112 - 1/4/2018 at 11:50 PM

quote:
The DJI closed at 25,075.13 today.
President Trump keeps delivering for The American People.



If he was delivering for the American people, you would think the DJI gains would have been better than the international markets, but sadly we lag behind the rest of the world. But hey, congrats to Trump for getting as close to Obama's gains over his first year. As with everything else, Trump failed to spur the market over his first year as well as Obama did. But I at least give credit to Trump for not completely destroying the economy - yet..


Sang - 1/5/2018 at 12:13 AM

quote:
The DJI closed at 25,075.13 today.
President Trump keeps delivering for The American People.







Well, for a few of the American people:

"There is, however, an important question I neglected to cover in that last piece: Who benefits from the increase in stock market wealth? Thanks to the work of economist Ed Wolff, who has been compiling such data over many years, we can answer that question.

First, there’s a bit of a myth that through indirect holdings, like holdings of stock in a pension fund, the stock market has become democratized, and everyone’s all in. Not so. Wolff’s data shows that while stock ownership has increased over the past few decades, in 2013 (his most recent data point), less than half — 46 percent — of households owned stocks, either directly or through their holdings in some sort of fund (e.g., a retirement account). Contrast that with the 94 percent ownership rate of the top 1 percent.

But even that 46 percent ownership rate gets misunderstood, because it doesn’t differentiate how much stock is owned by different income classes. Less than a third of all households hold at least $10,000 in stocks, compared to 93 percent of those households in the top 1 percent.

The figures below show that, since the late 1980s, about 80 percent of the value of the market has been held by the top 10 percent. Within that top 10 percent, the share of stock wealth held by the top 1 percent is about equal to the share held by the 90-99th percentiles; both groups’ shares are twice as large as the share that the entire bottom 90 percent holds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/03/02/perspective-on- the-stock-market-rally-80-of-stock-value-held-by-top-10/?utm_term=.a69a2b7a 5bdb


Muleman1994 - 1/5/2018 at 03:26 AM

quote:
quote:
The DJI closed at 25,075.13 today.
President Trump keeps delivering for The American People.







Well, for a few of the American people:

"There is, however, an important question I neglected to cover in that last piece: Who benefits from the increase in stock market wealth? Thanks to the work of economist Ed Wolff, who has been compiling such data over many years, we can answer that question.

First, there’s a bit of a myth that through indirect holdings, like holdings of stock in a pension fund, the stock market has become democratized, and everyone’s all in. Not so. Wolff’s data shows that while stock ownership has increased over the past few decades, in 2013 (his most recent data point), less than half — 46 percent — of households owned stocks, either directly or through their holdings in some sort of fund (e.g., a retirement account). Contrast that with the 94 percent ownership rate of the top 1 percent.

But even that 46 percent ownership rate gets misunderstood, because it doesn’t differentiate how much stock is owned by different income classes. Less than a third of all households hold at least $10,000 in stocks, compared to 93 percent of those households in the top 1 percent.

The figures below show that, since the late 1980s, about 80 percent of the value of the market has been held by the top 10 percent. Within that top 10 percent, the share of stock wealth held by the top 1 percent is about equal to the share held by the 90-99th percentiles; both groups’ shares are twice as large as the share that the entire bottom 90 percent holds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/03/02/perspective-on- the-stock-market-rally-80-of-stock-value-held-by-top-10/?utm_term=.a69a2b7a 5bdb



"First, there’s a bit of a myth that through indirect holdings, like holdings of stock in a pension fund, the stock market has become democratized, and everyone’s all in. Not so."

The premise of the opinion piece you posted is crap.
There is no factual data in the entire spin piece and the writer is a well known far-left extremist.

The performance of the stock market has a direct effect on the retirement funds of the American People and the stock market has soared since the day Donald Trump was elected.



crazyjoe - 1/5/2018 at 03:47 AM

President Trump and the Republicans deliver major Tax Cut and Jobs Act


Lube Your a**holes............Peace.........joe


jkeller - 1/5/2018 at 04:10 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
The DJI closed at 25,075.13 today.
President Trump keeps delivering for The American People.







Well, for a few of the American people:

"There is, however, an important question I neglected to cover in that last piece: Who benefits from the increase in stock market wealth? Thanks to the work of economist Ed Wolff, who has been compiling such data over many years, we can answer that question.

First, there’s a bit of a myth that through indirect holdings, like holdings of stock in a pension fund, the stock market has become democratized, and everyone’s all in. Not so. Wolff’s data shows that while stock ownership has increased over the past few decades, in 2013 (his most recent data point), less than half — 46 percent — of households owned stocks, either directly or through their holdings in some sort of fund (e.g., a retirement account). Contrast that with the 94 percent ownership rate of the top 1 percent.

But even that 46 percent ownership rate gets misunderstood, because it doesn’t differentiate how much stock is owned by different income classes. Less than a third of all households hold at least $10,000 in stocks, compared to 93 percent of those households in the top 1 percent.

The figures below show that, since the late 1980s, about 80 percent of the value of the market has been held by the top 10 percent. Within that top 10 percent, the share of stock wealth held by the top 1 percent is about equal to the share held by the 90-99th percentiles; both groups’ shares are twice as large as the share that the entire bottom 90 percent holds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/03/02/perspective-on- the-stock-market-rally-80-of-stock-value-held-by-top-10/?utm_term=.a69a2b7a 5bdb



"First, there’s a bit of a myth that through indirect holdings, like holdings of stock in a pension fund, the stock market has become democratized, and everyone’s all in. Not so."

The premise of the opinion piece you posted is crap.
There is no factual data in the entire spin piece and the writer is a well known far-left extremist.

The performance of the stock market has a direct effect on the retirement funds of the American People and the stock market has soared since the day Donald Trump was elected.





The stock market has soared since 2009.


Dow Jones



S&P 500






NASDAQ






And when it was going up under Obama, you right wingers were saying the President has nothing to do with it.

So which is it? Does the President have any effect on the stock market or not?


nebish - 1/5/2018 at 04:24 AM

"my President did it"

"no my President did it"


jkeller - 1/5/2018 at 04:37 AM

quote:
"my President did it"

"no my President did it"


I am not trying to say that at all. There are many things that go into how the stock market performs. Who is president is far down on the list. My point was to show that this bull market has been going on for almost 8 years. It has nothing to do with Trump.


2112 - 1/5/2018 at 05:30 AM

quote:
quote:
"my President did it"

"no my President did it"


I am not trying to say that at all. There are many things that go into how the stock market performs. Who is president is far down on the list. My point was to show that this bull market has been going on for almost 8 years. It has nothing to do with Trump.


I'll give credit to Trump for continuing the upward swing in the market that started almost 9 years ago. But how big a deal is that really? I didn't hear Republicans praising Obama for similar or better stock market performances for 8 years, so why is the stock market performance now something to crow about? Same thing with Trump taking credit for the FAA safety record over the last year. He had nothing to do with it, and their weren't any fatal commercial accidents over the last 4 years, so how is this a major win for Trump? I guess Trump forgot to Tweet about coal mine fatalities surging this year after the rollback in safety regulations. Now that one he can take credit for.

[Edited on 1/5/2018 by 2112]


nebish - 1/5/2018 at 02:59 PM

President's will get blame or credit for being in the right or wrong place at any given time. And in our case, Trump will take credit for everything. The "Trump Bump", the optimism on tax cuts, expectation of less regulatory and compliance costs, pro-growth policy...I think sometimes they give us these reasons after the fact, the prognosticators never really know why something is happening in the moment.

There are factors contributing to the gains in the Obama years and the Trump years which are both similar and are different. In the end I would probably thank "the business cycle" more than anything. We just need to remember, the business cycle giveth and can taketh away. But President's can get blamed for that too, rightfully or wrongly.

A growing stock market is a good thing. Sigh, even if all those greedy no good SOB wealthy people are going to experience more growth than the average Joe's 401K, people who do have some skin in the market feel better financially when the markets are doing well and they log into their accounts or get their statements in the mail.

Another thing that I think is very important and rarely discussed are the defined benefit pension plans which have assets invested in the markets. Any growth in these plans are not passed on or seen by the recipients, however, the strength and longevity of these plans relies heavily on a growing collection of investments to meet future obligations.



Muleman1994 - 1/5/2018 at 04:37 PM

The Stock Market’s historic rise under President Trump has the over 100 Million Americans that have an IRA or 401K laughing at the lefties.

During the 2016 campaign the Democrats said if Donald Trump is elected the stock market would crash and the economy would tank.

History proves them wrong again.


Muleman1994 - 1/5/2018 at 05:00 PM

Meanwhile…

The US economy added 148K jobs in December and manufacturing remains strong.

The unemployment rate held at 4.1%, the lowest rate in more than 17 years. The average hourly earnings increased again.

The jobs numbers come on the heels of a report Thursday from payroll processing firm ADP, which revealed that 250,000 private sector jobs were added in December, up from 185,000 in November.

Since the 2016 presidential election, more than 1.77 million private sector jobs have been created, and average hourly wages for the private sector have increased by 62 cents, or 2.4%.
This is of course prior to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act becoming law resulting and wages and bonuses surging.



pops42 - 1/5/2018 at 05:05 PM

quote:
Meanwhile…

The US economy added 148K jobs in December and manufacturing remains strong.

The unemployment rate held at 4.1%, the lowest rate in more than 17 years. The average hourly earnings increased again.

The jobs numbers come on the heels of a report Thursday from payroll processing firm ADP, which revealed that 250,000 private sector jobs were added in December, up from 185,000 in November.

Since the 2016 presidential election, more than 1.77 million private sector jobs have been created, and average hourly wages for the private sector have increased by 62 cents, or 2.4%.
This is of course prior to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act becoming law resulting and wages and bonuses surging.



Wow!, what are you gonna do with your .62 cents!


Sang - 1/5/2018 at 06:27 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
The DJI closed at 25,075.13 today.
President Trump keeps delivering for The American People.







Well, for a few of the American people:

"There is, however, an important question I neglected to cover in that last piece: Who benefits from the increase in stock market wealth? Thanks to the work of economist Ed Wolff, who has been compiling such data over many years, we can answer that question.

First, there’s a bit of a myth that through indirect holdings, like holdings of stock in a pension fund, the stock market has become democratized, and everyone’s all in. Not so. Wolff’s data shows that while stock ownership has increased over the past few decades, in 2013 (his most recent data point), less than half — 46 percent — of households owned stocks, either directly or through their holdings in some sort of fund (e.g., a retirement account). Contrast that with the 94 percent ownership rate of the top 1 percent.

But even that 46 percent ownership rate gets misunderstood, because it doesn’t differentiate how much stock is owned by different income classes. Less than a third of all households hold at least $10,000 in stocks, compared to 93 percent of those households in the top 1 percent.

The figures below show that, since the late 1980s, about 80 percent of the value of the market has been held by the top 10 percent. Within that top 10 percent, the share of stock wealth held by the top 1 percent is about equal to the share held by the 90-99th percentiles; both groups’ shares are twice as large as the share that the entire bottom 90 percent holds."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/03/02/perspective-on- the-stock-market-rally-80-of-stock-value-held-by-top-10/?utm_term=.a69a2b7a 5bdb



"First, there’s a bit of a myth that through indirect holdings, like holdings of stock in a pension fund, the stock market has become democratized, and everyone’s all in. Not so."

The premise of the opinion piece you posted is crap.
There is no factual data in the entire spin piece and the writer is a well known far-left extremist.

The performance of the stock market has a direct effect on the retirement funds of the American People and the stock market has soared since the day Donald Trump was elected.





Your usual.."but the source" bullsh!t argument..... there are plenty of sources that say the same thing:

From Gallup:

Before the 2008 financial crisis, 62% of U.S. adults, on average, said they owned stocks. Since then, the average has been 54%, including lows of 52% in 2013 and 2016. In Gallup's April 2017 update, 54% of Americans report having money invested in stocks.

The stock market lost more than half of its value during the bear market that coincided with the Great Recession and 2008 financial crisis, with many investors responding by taking their money out of the market. Although the stock market has more than made up for those losses, reaching record highs this year, Gallup's data indicate that fewer Americans today are in a position to benefit from those gains.

U.S. stock ownership rates are highly related to income, ranging from 21% among those with an annual household income of less than $30,000 to 89% among those with an income of $100,000 or more. Americans in all income groups below $100,000 are less likely to own stocks than they were from 2001 to 2008. This includes a drop of six percentage points among lower-income households, 13 points among middle-income households (annual income of $30,000 to $74,999) and 10 points among upper-middle-income households (annual income of $75,000 to $99,999).

Given that relatively few Americans in lower-income households invested in stocks before the 2008 financial crisis and upper-income households show no change in ownership, it follows that middle- and upper-middle-income households have largely driven the decline in stock ownership.

Stock ownership also varies by age, perhaps because middle-aged Americans are in their peak earning years. On average, 62% of U.S. adults aged 30 to 64 own stocks, compared with 31% of those aged 18 to 29 and 54% of those aged 65 and older. Older Americans are no less likely now to invest in the stock market than they were from 2001 to 2008, while younger age groups show declines of between seven and 11 percentage points.

This lack of decline among older adults could reflect that the leading edge of baby boomers (those born between 1946 and 1952) have moved into the 65+ age category since the 2008 crisis. As a generation, baby boomers -- all of whom were in their prime working years during the economic boom of the 1980s and 1990s, and many of whom likely had 401(k)s at work -- have above-average rates of stock ownership.

Implications

The stock market has performed well in 2017, but proportionately fewer Americans are benefiting from today's bull market than did so in bull markets before the financial crisis. The gains in stock values in recent years seem to have done little to persuade people who may have divested themselves of stocks to get back in the market.

Nor has the recovery encouraged new investors to join the market. Although young adults are understandably less likely than their elders to own stocks, the percentage of 18- to 29-year-olds investing is down 11 points since before the financial crisis.

It appears the financial crisis and recession may have fundamentally changed some Americans' views of stocks as an investment. The collapse in stock values in 2008 and 2009 seems to have left a greater impression on these people than the ongoing bull market that has followed it, as well as research showing the strong historical performance of stocks as a long-term investment.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/211052/stock-ownership-down-among-older-higher- income.aspx

Most people in minimum wage jobs do not have pensions or 401k's - also a lot of people in "small business" also don't have them - and the Trump administration made it harder on them by gutting state IRA programs that would have helped them.

More sources:

http://www.mybudget360.com/stock-market-sham-most-americans-own-no-stocks-w ho-owns-us-wealth/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-econom-stock-market-americans -20171219-story.html

I would post more, but you won't read or understand them anyway......


BoytonBrother - 1/5/2018 at 06:36 PM

quote:
The US economy added 148K jobs in December and manufacturing remains strong. The unemployment rate held at 4.1%, the lowest rate in more than 17 years. The average hourly earnings increased again.


This was proven to be false. You have no sources, as usual.

quote:
The jobs numbers come on the heels of a report Thursday from payroll processing firm ADP, which revealed that 250,000 private sector jobs were added in December, up from 185,000 in November.


Obama had better numbers - look it up.

quote:
Since the 2016 presidential election, more than 1.77 million private sector jobs have been created, and average hourly wages for the private sector have increased by 62 cents, or 2.4%.
This is of course prior to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act becoming law resulting and wages and bonuses surging.


This is a complete lie, and you have no source to back it up. Pathetic.

[Edited on 1/5/2018 by BoytonBrother]


2112 - 1/5/2018 at 08:33 PM

quote:
The Stock Market’s historic rise under President Trump has the over 100 Million Americans that have an IRA or 401K laughing at the lefties.

During the 2016 campaign the Democrats said if Donald Trump is elected the stock market would crash and the economy would tank.

History proves them wrong again.




How is it historic when the rise in the stock market is less than we saw under Obama in his first term? Like I said, I'm happy the stock market has continued its 9 year bull run under Trump. Not sure why you think continued performance is something to scream from the hilltops. I don't think you raved and posted about the similar stock market performance under Obama.

But, what do you think of the surge in coal mining deaths this year? Now that is something that Trump can actually take credit for.


nebish - 1/5/2018 at 08:40 PM

quote:
quote:The US economy added 148K jobs in December and manufacturing remains strong. The unemployment rate held at 4.1%, the lowest rate in more than 17 years. The average hourly earnings increased again.



This was proven to be false. You have no sources, as usual.


Was proven to be false? The top of the hour news break on the Thom Hartmann show just did a blurb about 148,000 jobs in December and the 4.1% unemployment being the lowest in 17 years. This would be on the Progress Sirius/XM radio station you may be familiar with. Must you be so quick to call everything muleman posts as incorrect?

There are many fresh news stories with all this data:

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/05/news/economy/december-2017-jobs-report/inde x.html
http://time.com/5089477/december-jobs-report-2017/


nebish - 1/5/2018 at 08:43 PM

quote:
quote:The jobs numbers come on the heels of a report Thursday from payroll processing firm ADP, which revealed that 250,000 private sector jobs were added in December, up from 185,000 in November.



Obama had better numbers - look it up.


What time frame are you comparing?


nebish - 1/5/2018 at 08:56 PM

quote:
quote:Since the 2016 presidential election, more than 1.77 million private sector jobs have been created, and average hourly wages for the private sector have increased by 62 cents, or 2.4%.
This is of course prior to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act becoming law resulting and wages and bonuses surging.



This is a complete lie, and you have no source to back it up. Pathetic.


A complete lie?

Don't really want to do Muleman's work for him, but I had some time so...his source appears to be:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2017/12/08/us-economy-adds-more-jobs-in- november-than-expected.html

Here's mine, 2 million jobs this year isn't bad, or a lie.

quote:
The U.S. economy added 2 million jobs in 2017, another solid year of gains.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/01/05/news/economy/december-2017-jobs-report/inde x.html



Wages and bonuses surging...the universe of US corporations is massive, this story offers some insight on a few of the happenings which have been in the news - the overall impact beyond these examples may or may not be minimal. Plenty of speculation both ways.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/03/business/corporate-tax-cut-bonuses-emplo yees.html

[Edited on 1/5/2018 by nebish]


nebish - 1/5/2018 at 09:06 PM

quote:
quote:The Stock Market’s historic rise under President Trump has the over 100 Million Americans that have an IRA or 401K laughing at the lefties.

During the 2016 campaign the Democrats said if Donald Trump is elected the stock market would crash and the economy would tank.

History proves them wrong again.



How is it historic when the rise in the stock market is less than we saw under Obama in his first term? Like I said, I'm happy the stock market has continued its 9 year bull run under Trump. Not sure why you think continued performance is something to scream from the hilltops. I don't think you raved and posted about the similar stock market performance under Obama.

But, what do you think of the surge in coal mining deaths this year? Now that is something that Trump can actually take credit for.


Are you comparing Obama's first term to Trump's first year?

The two periods however are not comparable in the first place since Obama came into office at a much different time than Trump. One could say the market's only had one way to go but up under Obama, although view is that it could've gotten worse.

But Trump stepped into a glorious situation in comparison, as you say a run of growth. Has that growth been fueled by Trump or would we have gotten similar results had Clinton had won? How can we ever know?

Now we blame Trump for more coal mining deaths. This is interesting. To what do you feel compelled to blame this on him for?


2112 - 1/5/2018 at 10:02 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:The Stock Market’s historic rise under President Trump has the over 100 Million Americans that have an IRA or 401K laughing at the lefties.

During the 2016 campaign the Democrats said if Donald Trump is elected the stock market would crash and the economy would tank.

History proves them wrong again.



How is it historic when the rise in the stock market is less than we saw under Obama in his first term? Like I said, I'm happy the stock market has continued its 9 year bull run under Trump. Not sure why you think continued performance is something to scream from the hilltops. I don't think you raved and posted about the similar stock market performance under Obama.

But, what do you think of the surge in coal mining deaths this year? Now that is something that Trump can actually take credit for.


Are you comparing Obama's first term to Trump's first year?

The two periods however are not comparable in the first place since Obama came into office at a much different time than Trump. One could say the market's only had one way to go but up under Obama, although view is that it could've gotten worse.

But Trump stepped into a glorious situation in comparison, as you say a run of growth. Has that growth been fueled by Trump or would we have gotten similar results had Clinton had won? How can we ever know?

Now we blame Trump for more coal mining deaths. This is interesting. To what do you feel compelled to blame this on him for?


We can never know what would have happened under Clinton, but the stock market growth under Trump is a continuation of continued growth for the past 8+ years. It is not exactly historic. I'm giving Trump some credit here, certainly more credit than most on the right gave Obama with similar or better results.

And yes, Trump rolled back safety regulations in the coal industry, and there was a surge in coal mining deaths. Easy to put 2 and 2 together here.

Oh, and Mule was bragging in this thread about 1.77 million new private sector jobs. Well, it is even better than that. 2.1 million new jobs were added in 2017. Sounds good, right? The problem is that that is a 6 year low. There were 2.2 million new jobs added in 2016.

"Over the year [2017], job growth totaled 2.1 million, compared with a gain of 2.2 million in 2016."

https://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/ceshighlights.pdf

And here's a chart of job growth since 2007:

https://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

2017 showed the slowest job growth rate of the past 6 years. But hey, 1.77 million new jobs sounds great, so let's use that number to brag about how great Trump is doing. But we didn't hear these same people congratulating Obama for adding jobs at a greater rate the previous 5 years. Again, I don't necessarily believe that the economy is doing bad under Trump. If Obama or any other president had these same numbers I wouldn't be complaining. However, I certainly wouldn't trying to convince anyone that the economy is doing better than it has been when the numbers don't reflect that at all.


[Edited on 1/6/2018 by 2112]


nebish - 1/5/2018 at 11:51 PM

I think there are some specific points that could be made to tie Trump actions or inactions to some issues in the coal mining deaths, I don't think it is quite easy to put 2 and 2 together.

I read some of the accident reports. The one new hire didn't treat his empty dump bed with de-icing solution before being loaded, despite being told that very morning to do so, then when he went to dump the load it stuck and tipped the truck over, the driver jumped out and later died from his injuries. That isn't Trump's fault, not sure what level of training or workplace inspections could've or would've prevented that.

But another guy with 23 years experience was was working underneath a conveyor belt became tangled in the moving mechanism and was victim of an unfortunate and sad death. There was fencing in the area, but not enough safety guards to prevent a worker from getting directly under the belt to remove the coal dust build up. Inspections could've caught this, but also the worker put himself in a dangerous position to work it - something miners sometimes do on their own, risking themselves to perform a dangerous task.

Again, I don't see enough blame to lay at Trump's feet in guilt on these deaths. But there is enough to question the direction of the administration on the direction of their interest in miner safety.


nebish - 1/5/2018 at 11:55 PM

Thank you for the links on the labor stats. The first one pdf looks good and I will sort through it. The second link doesn't work however.


2112 - 1/6/2018 at 01:24 AM

quote:
Thank you for the links on the labor stats. The first one pdf looks good and I will sort through it. The second link doesn't work however.


Not sure why. It worked earlier. How about this?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000001?output_view=net_1mth


nebish - 1/6/2018 at 03:37 AM

quote:
Not sure why. It worked earlier. How about this?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000001?output_view=net_1mth


Yes, that has led me to play with some other charts and tools. Fun to see all the different info these sites have.

I think I may've found an even better one that illustrates your point 2112!

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/nonfarm-payroll-employment-growth-totaled -2-point-2-million-in-2016.htm


Not sure why my CNN Money article did not draw the comparison between the 2016 vs 2017 number? Or point out the streak of 2+ million annual growth we've been experiencing...I mean they are so biased right, why not take this chance to show Obama in a good light and discount the Trump figures - wait, that is what the Whipping Post is for

I like seeing source data shown on your first bls pdf link rather than reading it in a news publication (I mean we know these news links can't be trusted

The annual growth / loss in manufacturing is pretty stark. 2017 saw the sector add 196,000 while 2016 had a 16,000 loss. Retail lost 67,000 in 2017, but had gained 203,000 in 2016. Those are some big swings. As is mining and logging with a gain of 59,000 vs a 2016 loss of 75,000.


2112 - 1/6/2018 at 09:49 AM

quote:
quote:
Not sure why. It worked earlier. How about this?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000001?output_view=net_1mth


Yes, that has led me to play with some other charts and tools. Fun to see all the different info these sites have.

I think I may've found an even better one that illustrates your point 2112!

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/nonfarm-payroll-employment-growth-totaled -2-point-2-million-in-2016.htm


Not sure why my CNN Money article did not draw the comparison between the 2016 vs 2017 number? Or point out the streak of 2+ million annual growth we've been experiencing...I mean they are so biased right, why not take this chance to show Obama in a good light and discount the Trump figures - wait, that is what the Whipping Post is for

I like seeing source data shown on your first bls pdf link rather than reading it in a news publication (I mean we know these news links can't be trusted

The annual growth / loss in manufacturing is pretty stark. 2017 saw the sector add 196,000 while 2016 had a 16,000 loss. Retail lost 67,000 in 2017, but had gained 203,000 in 2016. Those are some big swings. As is mining and logging with a gain of 59,000 vs a 2016 loss of 75,000.


Let's face it, labor numbers don't make sexy stories for the masses. Most people would rather read about Trump's latest stupid tweet or argue about football players kneeling for the national anthem. The numbers, both stock market increases and jobs numbers, are really a continuation of what has been happening for years, so they are not particularly newsworthy. I only brought this up to respond a claim the the economy is booming since Trump took over. That clearly isn't true. If you are praising Trump over the US economic performance this past year, then you should have been giving credit to Obama for the last 6 years or more. It's no secret here that I dislike Trump, but I'm one who is willing to give credit when it's due. But if someone is touting the stock market and jobs report as some kind of major accomplishment for Trump, then they are just fooling themselves.

[Edited on 1/6/2018 by 2112]


2112 - 1/6/2018 at 06:34 PM

See, case in point this morning. The media would rather focus on Trump's claim that he is a mentally stable genious than discuss his false claim of an economic boom. Trump is the king of distraction.


Chain - 1/6/2018 at 07:41 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Not sure why. It worked earlier. How about this?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000001?output_view=net_1mth


Yes, that has led me to play with some other charts and tools. Fun to see all the different info these sites have.

I think I may've found an even better one that illustrates your point 2112!

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/nonfarm-payroll-employment-growth-totaled -2-point-2-million-in-2016.htm


Not sure why my CNN Money article did not draw the comparison between the 2016 vs 2017 number? Or point out the streak of 2+ million annual growth we've been experiencing...I mean they are so biased right, why not take this chance to show Obama in a good light and discount the Trump figures - wait, that is what the Whipping Post is for

I like seeing source data shown on your first bls pdf link rather than reading it in a news publication (I mean we know these news links can't be trusted

The annual growth / loss in manufacturing is pretty stark. 2017 saw the sector add 196,000 while 2016 had a 16,000 loss. Retail lost 67,000 in 2017, but had gained 203,000 in 2016. Those are some big swings. As is mining and logging with a gain of 59,000 vs a 2016 loss of 75,000.


Let's face it, labor numbers don't make sexy stories for the masses. Most people would rather read about Trump's latest stupid tweet or argue about football players kneeling for the national anthem. The numbers, both stock market increases and jobs numbers, are really a continuation of what has been happening for years, so they are not particularly newsworthy. I only brought this up to respond a claim the the economy is booming since Trump took over. That clearly isn't true. If you are praising Trump over the US economic performance this past year, then you should have been giving credit to Obama for the last 6 years or more. It's no secret here that I dislike Trump, but I'm one who is willing to give credit when it's due. But if someone is touting the stock market and jobs report as some kind of major accomplishment for Trump, then they are just fooling themselves.

[Edited on 1/6/2018 by 2112]


The same is the case with the defeat of ISIS....Trump has done nothing strategically different, really, then what Obama and the DOD, various intelligent services, our allies, etc. began after the initial rise of ISIS. Just as with the economy, stock market, etc. Trump is merely the guy now in the office of President continuing what Obama and to be fair, Congress, began after the 2008 financial mess.

As you said above, the media isn't covering either subject all that much because both examples are really just a continuation of the policies of the previous Congress and the Obama administration. Now, Trump and his supporters won't admit this truth (especially a narcissist like Trump), but I think it's accurate for the most part...



[Edited on 1/6/2018 by Chain]


pops42 - 1/6/2018 at 07:55 PM

trump is just riding Obama's coattails. and causing damage to most Americans with his tax-scam/minimum wage jobs act.


jkeller - 1/6/2018 at 09:03 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Not sure why. It worked earlier. How about this?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000001?output_view=net_1mth


Yes, that has led me to play with some other charts and tools. Fun to see all the different info these sites have.

I think I may've found an even better one that illustrates your point 2112!

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/nonfarm-payroll-employment-growth-totaled -2-point-2-million-in-2016.htm


Not sure why my CNN Money article did not draw the comparison between the 2016 vs 2017 number? Or point out the streak of 2+ million annual growth we've been experiencing...I mean they are so biased right, why not take this chance to show Obama in a good light and discount the Trump figures - wait, that is what the Whipping Post is for

I like seeing source data shown on your first bls pdf link rather than reading it in a news publication (I mean we know these news links can't be trusted

The annual growth / loss in manufacturing is pretty stark. 2017 saw the sector add 196,000 while 2016 had a 16,000 loss. Retail lost 67,000 in 2017, but had gained 203,000 in 2016. Those are some big swings. As is mining and logging with a gain of 59,000 vs a 2016 loss of 75,000.


Let's face it, labor numbers don't make sexy stories for the masses. Most people would rather read about Trump's latest stupid tweet or argue about football players kneeling for the national anthem. The numbers, both stock market increases and jobs numbers, are really a continuation of what has been happening for years, so they are not particularly newsworthy. I only brought this up to respond a claim the the economy is booming since Trump took over. That clearly isn't true. If you are praising Trump over the US economic performance this past year, then you should have been giving credit to Obama for the last 6 years or more. It's no secret here that I dislike Trump, but I'm one who is willing to give credit when it's due. But if someone is touting the stock market and jobs report as some kind of major accomplishment for Trump, then they are just fooling themselves.

[Edited on 1/6/2018 by 2112]


The same is the case with the defeat of ISIS....Trump has done nothing strategically different, really, then what Obama and the DOD, various intelligent services, our allies, etc. began after the initial rise of ISIS. Just as with the economy, stock market, etc. Trump is merely the guy now in the office of President continuing what Obama and to be fair, Congress, began after the 2008 financial mess.

As you said above, the media isn't covering either subject all that much because both examples are really just a continuation of the policies of the previous Congress and the Obama administration. Now, Trump and his supporters won't admit this truth (especially a narcissist like Trump), but I think it's accurate for the most part...



[Edited on 1/6/2018 by Chain]


Trump defeated ISIS in the same way Harry Truman defeated Japan. Except Truman never bragged about it.


Chain - 1/6/2018 at 10:13 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Not sure why. It worked earlier. How about this?

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0500000001?output_view=net_1mth


Yes, that has led me to play with some other charts and tools. Fun to see all the different info these sites have.

I think I may've found an even better one that illustrates your point 2112!

https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/nonfarm-payroll-employment-growth-totaled -2-point-2-million-in-2016.htm


Not sure why my CNN Money article did not draw the comparison between the 2016 vs 2017 number? Or point out the streak of 2+ million annual growth we've been experiencing...I mean they are so biased right, why not take this chance to show Obama in a good light and discount the Trump figures - wait, that is what the Whipping Post is for

I like seeing source data shown on your first bls pdf link rather than reading it in a news publication (I mean we know these news links can't be trusted

The annual growth / loss in manufacturing is pretty stark. 2017 saw the sector add 196,000 while 2016 had a 16,000 loss. Retail lost 67,000 in 2017, but had gained 203,000 in 2016. Those are some big swings. As is mining and logging with a gain of 59,000 vs a 2016 loss of 75,000.


Let's face it, labor numbers don't make sexy stories for the masses. Most people would rather read about Trump's latest stupid tweet or argue about football players kneeling for the national anthem. The numbers, both stock market increases and jobs numbers, are really a continuation of what has been happening for years, so they are not particularly newsworthy. I only brought this up to respond a claim the the economy is booming since Trump took over. That clearly isn't true. If you are praising Trump over the US economic performance this past year, then you should have been giving credit to Obama for the last 6 years or more. It's no secret here that I dislike Trump, but I'm one who is willing to give credit when it's due. But if someone is touting the stock market and jobs report as some kind of major accomplishment for Trump, then they are just fooling themselves.

[Edited on 1/6/2018 by 2112]


The same is the case with the defeat of ISIS....Trump has done nothing strategically different, really, then what Obama and the DOD, various intelligent services, our allies, etc. began after the initial rise of ISIS. Just as with the economy, stock market, etc. Trump is merely the guy now in the office of President continuing what Obama and to be fair, Congress, began after the 2008 financial mess.

As you said above, the media isn't covering either subject all that much because both examples are really just a continuation of the policies of the previous Congress and the Obama administration. Now, Trump and his supporters won't admit this truth (especially a narcissist like Trump), but I think it's accurate for the most part...



[Edited on 1/6/2018 by Chain]


Trump defeated ISIS in the same way Harry Truman defeated Japan. Except Truman never bragged about it.


Yep....However, Harry Truman had some serious decisions to make near the end. Trump on the other hand, hasn't. Fortunately for us, the Dept. of Defense and others simply continued what was already in place with a few minor changes.

Trump, thankfully, has kept his stupidity, ignorance, and ego in check and allowed the Generals and actual professionals already in charge to continue to implement the strategy the Obama administration had already implemented. I'm convinced Trump's obsession with Generals is the only reason he didn't step in and make a clusterf*ck of things that were already working.

I think this obsession with Generals has something to do with his having dodged the draft numerous times and avoided service in Vietnam. Seriously, it's a guilt thing that is exacerbated by his myriad of other mental health issues.

[Edited on 1/6/2018 by Chain]


nebish - 1/7/2018 at 02:32 PM

You could be right about him not serving and why he likes to elevate generals and former military to key positions. Or it could just be he lacks a good inner circle he can trust, and rightfully so - I mean what we have seen and heard about the dysfunction from within. That is one disadvantage to the outsider, they lack the contacts and the personnel to rely. Without those relationships of trust and like minded people to surround one with, who do you turn to? Military officers have the background of competence and confidence plus a respect for authority and trust and team player mentality that would be hard to otherwise find for somebody trying to pick people to work with an outsider President. I think I might seek out and defer to people like that as well more often than not.


nebish - 1/7/2018 at 02:36 PM

Do none of you see any difference from Obama to now in terms of economic growth or fighting ISIS?

You have the expectation, anticipation and reaction to the tax cuts. That would not have existed under Obama.

You have a stepped up and still restrained, but more aggressive approach in Iraq and Syria vs ISIS.

Things were heading this direction before, yes, but I do think this White House and administration has been able to take it further in a positive way.


CB - 1/7/2018 at 03:30 PM

It is impossible for me to see the government selling out the future national debit crisis to allow lower corporate income tax rates as a positive for the future of our country.

Cutting social security to help offset the growth in the national debit created by lower tax revenue means individuals are paying back the tax cut.

Also, the individual income tax rates expire (if you assume a second Trump administration related term) just in time for someone other than a Trump administration to have to deal with them. The corporate cuts do not expire.

Also never in my life did I wake up with fear that I would hear about a nuclear strike on the morning news.


2112 - 1/7/2018 at 07:06 PM

quote:
Do none of you see any difference from Obama to now in terms of economic growth or fighting ISIS?

You have the expectation, anticipation and reaction to the tax cuts. That would not have existed under Obama.

You have a stepped up and still restrained, but more aggressive approach in Iraq and Syria vs ISIS.

Things were heading this direction before, yes, but I do think this White House and administration has been able to take it further in a positive way.


In a word, no. The anticipation of a tax cut and less regulation may have helped certain industries somewhat, but that was probably equalized by the damage caused by anticipation of the end of net neutrality and other threats to decrease funding to states he doesn't like, and the contractors who depend on that funding. For every added coal mining job added probably equals a job loss in the green energy field.

To believe that Trump's policies spurred growth, you are basically saying all positive trends over the last 6 years were going to suddenly reverse without him. I don't buy that.


Muleman1994 - 1/7/2018 at 07:46 PM

quote:
It is impossible for me to see the government selling out the future national debit crisis to allow lower corporate income tax rates as a positive for the future of our country.

Cutting social security to help offset the growth in the national debit created by lower tax revenue means individuals are paying back the tax cut.

Also, the individual income tax rates expire (if you assume a second Trump administration related term) just in time for someone other than a Trump administration to have to deal with them. The corporate cuts do not expire.

Also never in my life did I wake up with fear that I would hear about a nuclear strike on the morning news.



There is no "cutting social security" in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act or in any policy proposal by President Trump or The Republicans.

That lie comes from the corrupt liberal media.

The "the individual income tax rates expire" portion of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is required but I will bet you not one of the lefties here can say where that requirement comes from.




CB - 1/7/2018 at 10:23 PM

Budget reconciliation comes from the Byrd act.

Why were individual cuts the ones to expire in the bill instead of an increase in corporate taxes if needed to meet reconciliation?

If trickle down doesn't work, individuals will be worse off. Retired individuals on fixed income who aren't impacted by the theory of trickle down will be worse off.

Are corporates going to restate the retirement benefits to those on fixed income to offset the expiration of the individual tax cut, while the corporation has a windfall?


jkeller - 1/7/2018 at 10:34 PM

quote:
quote:
It is impossible for me to see the government selling out the future national debit crisis to allow lower corporate income tax rates as a positive for the future of our country.

Cutting social security to help offset the growth in the national debit created by lower tax revenue means individuals are paying back the tax cut.

Also, the individual income tax rates expire (if you assume a second Trump administration related term) just in time for someone other than a Trump administration to have to deal with them. The corporate cuts do not expire.

Also never in my life did I wake up with fear that I would hear about a nuclear strike on the morning news.



There is no "cutting social security" in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act or in any policy proposal by President Trump or The Republicans.

That lie comes from the corrupt liberal media.

The "the individual income tax rates expire" portion of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is required but I will bet you not one of the lefties here can say where that requirement comes from.






I can tell you. You pulled it out of your butt.


Muleman1994 - 1/8/2018 at 02:46 AM

quote:
Budget reconciliation comes from the Byrd act.

Why were individual cuts the ones to expire in the bill instead of an increase in corporate taxes if needed to meet reconciliation?

If trickle down doesn't work, individuals will be worse off. Retired individuals on fixed income who aren't impacted by the theory of trickle down will be worse off.

Are corporates going to restate the retirement benefits to those on fixed income to offset the expiration of the individual tax cut, while the corporation has a windfall?





The Byrd Act requires that all changes to individual tax rates have a life not longer than 10 years.

There are no reductions to retirement benefits to anyone.

The massive increase in economic activity which has already jumped under President Trump will ensure increased retirement benefits for everyone.


[Edited on 1/8/2018 by Muleman1994]


Muleman1994 - 1/10/2018 at 03:17 PM

Utilities cutting rates, cite benefits of Trump tax reform
www.washingtonexaminer.com

On the heels of companies dishing bonuses of up to $3,000 to over one million workers due to the anticipated benefit of President Trump’s tax reform victory, several major utilities have announced plans to cut rates in a consumer payback related to the lower taxes.

Energy suppliers like Washington’s Pepco, Baltimore Gas and Light, Pacific Power, Rocky Mountain Power and Commonwealth Edison said they plan to give hundreds of thousands of customers a rate cut due to the tax reform.

The taxpayer advocate group Americans for Tax Reform is pulling together the list of utilities expected to apply for a rate cut as it has for more than 100 major firms planning to pay out bonuses, higher wages and increased benefits due to the expected windfall they plan to receive when corporate taxes are cut.

In one announcement typical of those from the utilities sharing their tax benefits, Pacific Power said, “The benefit of this tax cut should be passed on to our customers – and we will work with our regulators and stakeholders on the best way to do that.”

Here are ATR’s examples:

Baltimore Gas & Electric – the utility is passing on $82 million worth of tax savings, resulting in lower gas and electric bills for customers:

Today BGE will file with the Maryland Public Service Commission (PSC) to pass approximately $82 million in annual tax savings to customers, resulting from federal tax cost reductions. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which decreased the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, was signed into law on Dec. 22, 2017 and became effective on Jan. 1, 2018. If approved by the PSC, the average BGE residential electric customer can expect to see an estimated $2.31 decrease on their monthly bill, and the average residential combined natural gas and electric customer can expect an estimated $4.27 monthly reduction, effective in February 2018.

“Reduced tax costs create an opportunity for BGE customers to benefit from further decreases in their total energy bills,” said Calvin G. Butler Jr, chief executive officer of BGE. – Jan. 5, 2018 Baltimore Gas & Electric press release

Pacific Power – the utility will pass along tax savings to customers:
The new Republican tax plan has brought a variety of tax cuts. Pacific Power says they are committed to passing the benefit of this tax cut on to customers.

“We strive to provide our customers reliable service while keeping rates low,” said Stefan Bird, President and CEO of Pacific Power. “The benefit of this tax cut should be passed on to our customers – and we will work with our regulators and stakeholders on the best way to do that.” – Jan. 3, 2018 My Columbia Basin article excerpt

Pepco – the utility will pass along tax savings to customers:

Pepco today announced they will file with the Public Service Commission of the District of Columbia in early February, outlining plans to provide annual tax savings to more than 296,000 electric customers in the District of Columbia. If approved, Pepco would plan to begin providing a credit lowering customer bills starting in the first quarter of 2018.

The tax savings are the result of federal tax reductions under the new Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which was signed into law on Dec. 22, 2017, and became effective on Jan. 1, 2018. The decrease in the Corporate Tax Rate from 35 percent to 21 percent reduces the amount of federal income tax Pepco will have to pay.

“The tax law will result in lower bills for our customers and lower taxes for Pepco,” said Dave Velazquez, President and CEO, Pepco Holdings, which includes Pepco. “We are pleased to provide these savings to our customers, while at the same time ensuring we are making prudent investments in the local power grid to maintain the safe, reliable, and affordable service our customers have come to expect.” – Jan. 5, 2018 Pepco press release

Rocky Mountain Power – the utility will pass along tax savings to customers:

Rocky Mountain Power says it plans to pass some of its federal tax savings on to customers. But, the company isn't sure how much or when. – Jan. 4 Local News 8 article excerpt
Commonwealth Edison Company (ComEd) – the utility is passing on $200 million worth of tax savings to its customers:

Today ComEd is filing a petition with the Illinois Commerce Commission (ICC) seeking approval to pass along approximately $200 million in tax savings to its customers in 2018. If approved by the ICC, the average ComEd residential customer can expect to see an estimated $2-$3 decrease on their monthly bill related to the tax reduction.

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), which was signed into law on Dec. 22, 2017 and became effective on Jan. 1, 2018, decreased the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, reducing the amount of federal income tax ComEd will have to pay. – Jan. 5 Commonwealth Edison Company press release

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/utilities-cutting-rates-cite-benefits-of- trump-tax-reform/article/2645375


Muleman1994 - 1/10/2018 at 03:18 PM

Jamie Dimon, JPMorgan Chase & Co. CEO and considered by many to be America’s Banker, says with President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and pro-growth policies the U.S. economic growth will soon reach 4%.

His press statement was released Monday.
Jamie Dimon is a Democrat.


MartinD28 - 1/10/2018 at 05:44 PM

People say the funniest things - Jamie Dimon with his growth projections & Trump with his self described "stable genius" label. Too funny. Kind of like unicorns & pot of gold at end of rainbow.

[Edited on 1/10/2018 by MartinD28]


nebish - 1/10/2018 at 06:00 PM

I listened to a Warren Buffet interview on CNBC this morning. The way he described it, no wonder the market has seen such a historic and record breaking surge the last year.

I'm paraphrasing, imagine the federal government is taking 35% and the company and the investors get the remaining 65% of the profits. By doing nothing the companies and their shareholders gained 14% to a 79% stake, the potential for market growth remains quite large. This is going to go on for a while, unless some geo-polticial event happens.

As we have hashed over here, the tradegectory of the market's growth is long with gains with substantial job increases under the Obama administration. So the foundation for that was already laid. But it can't be ignored what this tax cut bill has done, not just since it's passage, but during the speculation of it happening, the ramp up since the election.

Buffet says you can't reliably forecast economic growth, but you can forecast what tax changes will or will not do on the balance sheet, tangible changes...and these companies and investors have been banking on it for some time.

Now the rubber meets the road. Market gains and more profitable companies is one thing. What happens next will ultimately determine the success of the plan and what Trump and this Congress should be judged by.


nebish - 1/10/2018 at 06:34 PM

Here is an excerpt, sorry, don't know why it is all CAPS:

quote:
NOW, ADDITIONALLY, YOU HAD THE TAX ACT, WHICH IS A HUGE FACTOR IN VALUATION. I MEAN, IF YOU HAD BOUGHT – WE’RE IN OMAHA, LET’S SAY YOU HAD BOUGHT THE UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD YOURSELF, LIKE WE BOUGHT THE BNSF, AND IF YOU HAD BOUGHT IT A YEAR OR TWO AGO, YOU COULD HAVE BOUGHT 100% OF THE STOCK, BUT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT WOULD HAVE HAD A SUPER STOCK THAT WAS ENTITLED TO 35% OF THE EARNINGS. AND THEY HAD JUST CHANGED THAT WITHOUT YOU PAYING THEM A PENNY TO WHERE THERE’S – THEY NOW HAVE 21% OF THE STOCK. IN EFFECT, YOU BOUGHT IN THEIR 14%, 40% OF WHAT THEY HAD FOR NOTHING. I MEAN, IT’D BE LIKE I GAVE 14% OF BERKSHIRE BACK TO BERKSHIRE FOR NOTHING. WOULD THAT MAKE THE REMAINING SHARES MORE VALUABLE? OF COURSE IT WOULD. AND SO YOU’VE HAD THIS MAJOR CHANGE IN THE SILENT STOCKHOLDER IN AMERICAN BUSINESS WHO HAS BEEN CONTENT WITH 35% — NOW THERE’S VARIOUS THINGS ABOUT FOREIGN EARNINGS AND ALL THAT, BUT 35% OF A BASIC – OUR BASIC BUSINESSES. AND NOW INSTEAD OF GETTING A 35% INTEREST ON THEIR EARNINGS THEY GET A 21%, AND THAT MAKES THE REMAINING STOCK MORE VALUABLE.

QUICK: I HAVE NOT HEARD ANYBODY EXPLAIN IT JUST LIKE THAT. WHEN YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE’RE CONSTANTLY ASKING IS THIS BAKED INTO THE MARKET? IS THIS REFLECTED IN THE MARKET? WHEN YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT MAKES ME THINK NO, THAT THIS IS A MUCH LONGER TERM, MUCH BIGGER DEAL THAN THE RUN-UP THAT WE’VE SEEN IN THE LAST MONTH OR SO.

BUFFETT: WELL, IT’S A BIG DEAL. HOW MUCH OF IT HAS BEEN BAKED IN AS PEOPLE STARTED THINKING MAYBE THERE WOULD BE THE TAX BILL AND HOW BIG WOULD IT BE. I THINK THAT – 21% WAS NOT BAKED IN, THAT’S A HUGE, HUGE REDUCTION. IF YOU AND I WERE PARTNERS IN A BUSINESS AND YOU OWNED 35% OF IT AND I OWN 65% AND THEN YOU SHOWED UP ONE DAY AND SAID I’M GIVING YOU 14 OF MY 35 POINTS, NOW MY INTEREST HAS GONE FROM 65% TO 79%. THAT’S MORE THAN A 20% INCREASE IN THE EARNING POWER, AND YOU’VE JUST GIVEN IT TO ME. NOTHING HAS CHANGED IN THE BUSINESS THAT’S — IT’S A BIG FACTOR. NOW, THEY CAN TAKE IT AWAY TOO. GO THE OTHER DIRECTION.

http://delawarebusinessnow.com/2018/01/warren-buffett-interview-cnbc-touche s-succession-tax-bill/



Sang - 1/10/2018 at 07:34 PM

Public utilities are highly regulated by state commissions ..... they would be asked to reduce their rates because of the tax cut anyway ..... it's all part of the formula for how their rates are set..... can't wait to get that extra $2-$3 per month once their rate case is finally settled.......


Muleman1994 - 1/10/2018 at 08:19 PM

quote:
Public utilities are highly regulated by state commissions ..... they would be asked to reduce their rates because of the tax cut anyway ..... it's all part of the formula for how their rates are set..... can't wait to get that extra $2-$3 per month once their rate case is finally settled.......


Bullsheet.
Not one of the utilities reducing their rate has been "asked" to by regulators.

President Trump is getting the job done for the people and the left-wing losers can't stand it.
Ha ha, the lefties lose again.

The left said during the campaign that if Donald Trump was elected President the stock market would crash and the economy would tank.

Lying will not but you votes.

The American People are laughing at you losers yet again.


Sang - 1/10/2018 at 10:32 PM

Yes, but they will be asked to ..... that's how it works, it's just timing. Matter of fact, ComEd just got a rate hike of about $1 a bill - so this just about evens it out.....


Muleman1994 - 1/10/2018 at 10:41 PM

quote:
Yes, but they will be asked to ..... that's how it works, it's just timing. Matter of fact, ComEd just got a rate hike of about $1 a bill - so this just about evens it out.....



"they will be asked to ..... that's how it works"
Right. Exactly which regulators would that be? The ones that have not said anything? The ones cowering from the surge in the American economy thanks to President Trump and the Republicans?

Math just ain't your thing is it son.
That is okay.
The American People are reaping the benefits of President Trump and the Republicans Tax Cut and Jobs Act and the left is still trying to come up with something for the people.


BoytonBrother - 1/10/2018 at 11:31 PM

Mule, why do you think about the left so much?


Sang - 1/10/2018 at 11:44 PM

Well, I actually have a degree in math - and I worked for a utility and worked with the state utility commission all the time.... but I'm sure you know better how utility rates are set.....


Muleman1994 - 1/11/2018 at 05:29 PM

quote:
Well, I actually have a degree in math - and I worked for a utility and worked with the state utility commission all the time.... but I'm sure you know better how utility rates are set.....



You claim to have a degree in math?
Maybe you should get your money back.


Muleman1994 - 1/11/2018 at 05:30 PM

President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cuts and Jobs Act continues to directly benefit the American worker:

Walmart boosts pay for one million U.S. workers, tax reform is the reason why
www.foxbusiness.com

Walmart (WMT), the nation’s largest employer, with 1.5 million U.S. workers will allow the majority of those employees, 1 million, to share in the benefits of the largest sweeping tax reform in three decades.

The retailer is boosting starting hourly wages to $11 an hour. Additionally, the retailer will give one-time $1,000 bonus payments to workers, depending on length of service at the company. It is also extending maternity and parental benefits. The changes take place in February.

“We are early in the stages of assessing the opportunities tax reform creates for us to invest in our customers and associates and to further strengthen our business, all of which should benefit our shareholders” said CEO Doug McMillon in a statement on Thursday.

Walmart joins other major S&P 500 companies that have rewarded employees after the passage of President Trump’s tax reform package which lowers the corporate tax rate to 21% from 35% and provides tax breaks for most American workers.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2018/01/11/walmart-boosts-pay-for-one-mi llion-u-s-workers-tax-reform-is-reason-why.html




jkeller - 1/11/2018 at 06:58 PM

quote:
President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cuts and Jobs Act continues to directly benefit the American worker:

Walmart boosts pay for one million U.S. workers, tax reform is the reason why
www.foxbusiness.com

Walmart (WMT), the nation’s largest employer, with 1.5 million U.S. workers will allow the majority of those employees, 1 million, to share in the benefits of the largest sweeping tax reform in three decades.

The retailer is boosting starting hourly wages to $11 an hour. Additionally, the retailer will give one-time $1,000 bonus payments to workers, depending on length of service at the company. It is also extending maternity and parental benefits. The changes take place in February.

“We are early in the stages of assessing the opportunities tax reform creates for us to invest in our customers and associates and to further strengthen our business, all of which should benefit our shareholders” said CEO Doug McMillon in a statement on Thursday.

Walmart joins other major S&P 500 companies that have rewarded employees after the passage of President Trump’s tax reform package which lowers the corporate tax rate to 21% from 35% and provides tax breaks for most American workers.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2018/01/11/walmart-boosts-pay-for-one-mi llion-u-s-workers-tax-reform-is-reason-why.html






That's great for those workers. But what about their Sam's Club workers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/walmart-suddenly-closes-sams-club-stores-201 8-1

Walmart is closing 63 Sam's Club stores across the US, the company told Business Insider.

Several stores were abrupty closed Thursday. In some cases, employees were not informed of the closures prior to showing up to work on Thursday.

Instead, they learned that their store would be closing when they found the store's doors locked and a notice announcing the closure, according to reports.

Ten of the affected stores will be turned into ecommerce distribution centers, and employees of those stores will have the opportunity to reapply for positions at those locations, a Walmart official said.

The remaining stores will stay open for several weeks before closing permanently.

Sam's Club offered an explanation for the closures on Twitter, saying, "After a thorough review of our existing portfolio, we’ve decided to close a series of clubs and better align our locations with our strategy. Closing clubs is never easy and we’re committed to working with impacted members and associates through this transition."

1h

YourMCAdmin
@YourMCAdmin
Wow, a whole lot of @SamsClub locations shut down today while giving 0 notice to workers. That sounds like the management team alright. They are heartless people. I feel terrible for the thousands of people who just lost their jobs.


Sam's Club
✔
@SamsClub
After a thorough review of our existing portfolio, we’ve decided to close a series of clubs and better align our locations with our strategy. Closing clubs is never easy and we’re committed to working with impacted members and associates through this transition.

9:25 AM - Jan 11, 2018
35 35 Replies 10 10 Retweets 3 3 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy
The closures come on the same day that Walmart announced it was raising starting hourly wages to $11, expanding employee benefits, and offering workers bonuses of up to $1,000.

Here's a list of closures rounded up from local media reports and Sam's Club employees that contacted Business Insider. The list will be updated as we learn of additional locations.

8801 Old Seward Hwy, Anchorage, AK 99515
17835 Gale Ave, City of Industry, CA 91748
12540 Beach Blvd, Stanton, CA 90680
69 Pavilions Dr, Manchester, CT 06042
355 FL-436, Fern Park, FL 32730
5135 S Dale Mabry Hwy, Tampa, FL 33611
2994 Turner Hill Rd, Lithonia, GA 30038
501 N Randall Rd, Batavia, IL 60510
21430 S Cicero Ave, Matteson, IL 60443
900 S Barrington Rd, Streamwood, IL 60107
1055 McHenry Rd, Wheeling, IL 60090
808 S Illinois Rte 59, Naperville, IL 60540
460 S Weber Rd, Romeoville, IL 60446
3015 W 86th St, Indianapolis, IN 46268
10859 E Washington St, Indianapolis, IN 46229
4024 Elkhart Rd #1, Goshen, IN 46526
9598 Cortana Pl, Baton Rouge, LA 70815
9750 Reisterstown Rd, Owings Mills, MD 21117
3745 Louisiana Ave S, St Louis Park, MN 55426
2800 27th Ave S, Moorhead, MN 56560
81 International Dr S, Budd Lake, NJ 07828
2649 Erie Blvd E, Syracuse, NY 13224
720 Fairmount Ave, Jamestown, NY 14701
700 Elmridge Center Dr, Rochester, NY 14626
1600 Marketplace Dr, Rochester, NY 14623
4825 Marburg Ave, Cincinnati, OH 45209
9570 Fields Ertel Rd, Loveland, OH 45140
1805 Getwell Rd, Memphis, TN 38111
1615 S Loop W, Houston, TX 77054
13331 Westheimer Rd, Houston, TX 77077
901 S Grady Way, Renton, WA 98057
1101 Outlet Collection Way, Auburn, WA 98001
13550 Aurora Ave N, Seattle, WA 98133
If you know of stores closing that are missing from this list, reach out to hpeterson@businessinsider.com.


Sang - 1/11/2018 at 07:46 PM

quote:
quote:
Well, I actually have a degree in math - and I worked for a utility and worked with the state utility commission all the time.... but I'm sure you know better how utility rates are set.....



You claim to have a degree in math?
Maybe you should get your money back.




They didn't have classes in trolling when I was in college.......

I have a degree in Math and Psychology .... people like you were talked about all the time in my psychology classes ....


BrerRabbit - 1/11/2018 at 08:49 PM

I bet there are classes in internet psychology by now - these are serious pathologies, infecting others, really sick stuff.

This guy is a classic troll - needs help, but online there are no social checks, it can just snowball into a severity that is not simply an irritant to others, but a self-justifying, self-fueling, self-acceleating fishbowl logic world where extreme behaviors may result in the real world.

Easy to shrug off, it's just a chat forum, but given the steady escalation of offensive antisocial attacks, the repetition and incoherence (the "black murder" tape-loop the most glaring recent example), a chilling lack of humor as well as outright refusal of genuine gestures of friendship, combined with the recent report from a longtime member that he used to be friendly and social - a clearly downward spiral into paranoid schizophrenia - I'd offer a layman's guess it is not too farfetched to surmise that he is a likely candidate for going postal or suicide, or some.other radical antisocial meltdown.

Creep.


MartinD28 - 1/11/2018 at 10:53 PM

Remember Trump & all his bravado about Carrier. Fast forward.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/carrier-workers-activists-slam-president-1502465 02.html


OriginalGoober - 1/12/2018 at 02:11 AM

Let these Carriert folks check back in a year in a boom economy to see how they fared. I am positive most will report back with good news and not just that they could finally afford a pizza, which was an Obama benchmark for middle class progress.


2112 - 1/12/2018 at 02:42 AM

quote:
Let these Carriert folks check back in a year in a boom economy to see how they fared. I am positive most will report back with good news and not just that they could finally afford a pizza, which was an Obama benchmark for middle class progress.


Mule has been insisting that the economy has been booming under Trump this year, and he points to the record stock market and the 2.1 million new jobs added in 2017. Are you disagreeing with him?


nebish - 1/12/2018 at 05:17 AM

quote:
Remember Trump & all his bravado about Carrier. Fast forward.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/carrier-workers-activists-slam-president-1502465 02.html


I said it then, the jobs saved at the Carrier plant were not enough. And where is the punishment, the teeth to bite these corporations that outsource the job only to make the product abroad only to bring it back in for sale in our market.

That is not how free trade is supposed to work. If there is an HVAC company that wants to export it's products to the US, that is one thing. If there is an HVAC company in the US that wants to export it's jobs to Mexico so it can bring the product back into the US to make more profit - that is another thing. And there are other variables, competitive pressure on wholesale and retail pricing and market share that shape these decisions, it isn't always about wanting more profit.

For me the Carrier "deal" by Trump was a good first step, but it's a failure. Some jobs at Carrier were indeed kept there. But the failure is the bigger picture. We are a year into the administration and there is no new system in place to discourage outsourcing of US labor and no punishment for those companies that do. Shame on them and shame on Trump for not fighting harder on this.

Alot's been made about the tax changes on foreign profits and how it could encourage offshoring. But foreign profits were already protected from US taxes so long as those profits were kept outside our country, which was often the case. So in effect there is no change on that. Now those profits are welcomed to come back to the US with much lower rate as under the prior law companies had to keep their foreign earning abroad to avoid US taxes. We'll have to see how that plays out although people for or against one party or the other have already dug their positions in.


Muleman1994 - 1/16/2018 at 11:29 PM

President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act continues to directly help The American Economy and People:

Fiat Chrysler will move Ram truck production from Mexico to Michigan
By Ray Downs | Jan. 11, 2018 at 10:03 PM

Jan. 11 (UPI) -- Fiat Chrysler Automobiles said Thursday it plans to invest more than $1 billion in a Detroit-area truck plant and move production of its Ram Heavy Duty trucks there from Mexico.

The move is expected to create more than 2,500 jobs in the Detroit area by 2020. In addition, FCA said it will give special bonus payments of $2,000 to approximately 60,000 f its hourly and salaried employees.

FCA credited the recently-passed tax reform legislation for these decisions.

"These announcements reflect our ongoing commitment to our U.S. manufacturing footprint and the dedicated employees who have contributed to FCA's success," Fiat Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne said in a news release. "It is only proper that our employees share in the savings generated by tax reform and that we openly acknowledge the resulting improvement in the U.S. business environment by investing in our industrial footprint accordingly."

President Donald Trump praised FCA's announcement via Twitter on Thursday.

"Chrysler is moving a massive plant from Mexico to Michigan, reversing a years long opposite trend," he wrote. "Thank you Chrysler, a very wise decision. The voters in Michigan are very happy they voted for Trump/Pence. Plenty of more to follow!"

The Italian-owned FCA's announcement comes one day after Japanese-owned Toyota and Mazda said it will build an assembly plant in Alabama that will create approximately 4,000 jobs in the Huntsville area.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/11/Fiat-Chrysler-will-move-Ram-truc k-production-from-Mexico-to-Michigan/5231515725368/



Muleman1994 - 1/16/2018 at 11:36 PM

Bob Wright on US economy: 2018 will be the most outstanding year since 1996

www.foxbusiness.com

The U.S. economy expanded more than 3% during the second and third quarter of 2017, with the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta's GDPNow model predicting 3.4% growth in the fourth quarter .

On top of that, stocks continue their record rally with the Dow passing the 26K milestone Tuesday.

Former NBC Universal CEO Bob Wright said he agrees with the Trump administration predictions for even further economic growth boosted by the recent tax reform legislation.

“And I’ll say one thing, [Dow] 26,000, I don’t think we really haven’t gone anywhere near where we’re going to go,” Wright told FOX Business’ Stuart Varney on “Varney & Co.”

According to Wright, the tax reform plan could potentially impact the economy into next year and beyond.

“I’ve predicted 2018 will be the most outstanding year since probably 1996 or 1997 in terms of productivity, in terms of probably getting close to 4% on GDP and then the following years are going to have tremendous opportunity to that. “

Wright also predicted the tax reform package could lead to as many as 10 million jobs being created over the next decade, said the booming economy would benefit a wide range of businesses in America.

“The economy is going to be so strong this year that you’re going to see all kinds of things, real estate is going to happen, small businesses, large businesses, bringing back that cash or a lot of that cash is going right into the economy.”


BoytonBrother - 1/17/2018 at 02:12 AM

Do you need a trip to the bathroom Mule?


nebish - 1/18/2018 at 01:26 PM

Hopefully Apple will just be the first to repatriate foreign held cash, the new tax law makes it more financially feasable.

quote:
Apple, Capitalizing on New Tax Law, Plans to Bring Billions in Cash Back to U.S.

By DAISUKE WAKABAYASHI and BRIAN X. CHENJAN. 17, 2018


SAN FRANCISCO — Apple, which had long deferred paying taxes on its foreign earnings and had become synonymous with hoarding money overseas, unveiled plans on Wednesday that would bring back the vast majority of the $252 billion in cash that it held abroad and said it would make a sizable investment in the United States.

With the moves, Apple took advantage of the new tax code that President Trump signed into law last month. A provision allows for a one-time repatriation of corporate cash held abroad at a lower tax rate than what would have been paid under the previous tax plan. Apple, which has 94 percent of its total cash of $269 billion outside the United States, said it would make a one-time tax payment of $38 billion on the repatriated cash.

For years, Apple had said it would not bring its foreign earnings back to the United States until the corporate tax code changed, because such a move would be too costly. Now Apple’s bet to hold back on paying such taxes is reaping rewards under the Trump administration.

In return, Mr. Trump and other Republicans can point to Apple as having come around because of their legislative action. The $38 billion tax payment from the Silicon Valley giant is set to be among the biggest payouts from the tax bill, and Apple said it would put some of the money it brought back toward 20,000 new jobs, a new domestic campus and other spending.

“I promised that my policies would allow companies like Apple to bring massive amounts of money back to the United States,” Mr. Trump tweeted on Wednesday. “Great to see Apple follow through as a result of TAX CUTS.”

Timothy D. Cook, Apple’s chief executive, said in a statement, “We have a deep sense of responsibility to give back to our country and the people who help make our success possible.”

Apple estimated that its direct impact on the American economy would total more than $350 billion over the next five years, but how much that goes beyond what the company would have spent anyway is unclear. Apple’s current pace of spending in the United States is $55 billion for 2018, so it was already on track to spend $275 billion over the next five years. After the $38 billion tax payment is subtracted, that leaves its new investment at roughly $37 billion over the next five years.

A. M. Sacconaghi, a financial analyst for Sanford C. Bernstein, said Apple had consistently spent tens of billions of dollars on areas like staffing and capital expenditures in recent years. Bringing back the overseas cash, he said, does little to aid its expansion. But it makes the company appear to answer Mr. Trump’s call for more jobs to be created in the United States.

“This is Apple putting its best foot forward consistent with objectives of the administration,” Mr. Sacconaghi said.

Apple is one of several multinational giants that have kept a total of roughly $3 trillion in global profits off their domestic books to sidestep the previous 35 percent federal corporate tax rate. Under the new tax law, companies that make a one-time repatriation of cash will be taxed at a rate of 15.5 percent on cash holdings and 8 percent on nonliquid assets. That is lower than the new 21 percent corporate rate. And under the new tax code, Apple would also have been taxed whether it brought the money back or not.

By shifting the money under the new terms, Apple has saved $43 billion in taxes, more than any other American company, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a research group in Washington.
Interested in All Things Tech?

The Bits newsletter will keep you updated on the latest from Silicon Valley and the technology industry.

Other tech giants are set to follow suit in the coming months. Companies like Microsoft, Alphabet and Cisco also shifted their profits into offshore shell companies, avoiding billions of dollars in taxes, and are now in a better position to bring the money back.

Although Republican supporters of the tax law argued that the influx of international profits would create jobs and increase wages, many economists disagreed that a one-time repatriation would have any substantial impact on real investment.

Apple’s announcement, couched as a major investment in the United States instead of a massive financial windfall, followed years of criticism that the company did not do enough for the American economy because it makes most of its products in China and parked its profits abroad.

During the 2016 presidential campaign, Apple was a frequent target of Mr. Trump, who pledged that as president he would force the company to start making iPhones and Macs in the United States. While that hasn’t happened and is unlikely to, Apple has since gone on a charm offensive to demonstrate its value to the American economy.

The company has highlighted the number of jobs created by the so-called app economy, an ecosystem of software and services that run on the iPhone and other Apple products. Last year, Apple also said it was creating a $1 billion fund to invest in advanced manufacturing in the United States. On Wednesday, Apple said it was increasing the size of that fund to $5 billion and noted that it was already backing projects from manufacturers in Kentucky and Texas.

Apple, which is based in Cupertino, Calif., also took a page out of Amazon’s public relations strategy on Wednesday by saying it will open a new domestic campus in a location where it currently has no operations. Amazon garnered good will throughout the country last year when it announced plans to open a second corporate headquarters outside its home base of Seattle.

Apple currently has about 84,000 employees in the United States, so 20,000 new jobs would be a 24 percent increase. The company added that it would invest more than $30 billion in capital expenditures, or spending on parts and the equipment required to produce them, over the next five years in the United States.

For a comparison, Apple spent $14.9 billion in capital expenditures in the last fiscal year, though it did not specify how much it spends in the United States alone.

For Apple, repatriating the cash creates opportunities that could include acquisitions and higher dividends for shareholders. The company had previously chosen to borrow money to fund its stock buybacks and dividends, instead of bringing its cash back from abroad. Over the last five years, Apple has returned $233 billion in cash to shareholders through buybacks and dividends.

Paying $38 billion in taxes now is unlikely to strain Apple’s checkbook because the company had already earmarked $36.4 billion in anticipation that it would eventually have to pay taxes on its foreign earnings.

“From a financial statement perspective, it’s going to be a nonevent,” said J. Richard Harvey, a Villanova University law professor and former Internal Revenue Service official. Other companies are not as prepared, he said, and would likely have to take a significant loss should they make a one-time cash repatriation.

Apple employees will see benefits as well. Mr. Cook said in an email to staff on Wednesday that Apple was increasing investment in its employees by rewarding them with bonuses of $2,500 in restricted stock units, according to people familiar with the matter, who asked not to be identified because the plans were not public. Apple joins other companies, such as AT&T, that have issued employee bonuses since the tax law was signed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/technology/apple-tax-bill-repatriate-cas h.html



[Edited on 1/18/2018 by nebish]


Muleman1994 - 1/19/2018 at 12:50 AM

Great news is worth repeating!

President Trump and The Republican’s Tax Cut and Jobs Act continues to greatly help The U.S. and American Workers:

Apple is building a new campus and will hire 20,000 new employees
www.businessinsider.com

• Apple on Wednesday announced plans to open a new campus in the United States and said it would hire 20,000 new employees over the next five years.

• It also says it plans to pay $38 billion in repatriation tax. CNBC estimated that with the new repatriation tax rate of 15.5%, the company would bring nearly all its overseas cash, or about $245 billion, back to the United States.

Apple on Wednesday announced plans to open a new campus this year as part of an effort to hire 20,000 new workers over the next five years.

The company said in a statement that it would "establish an Apple campus in a new location," to be announced "later in the year," that would "initially house technical support for customers."

Apple declined to give more information on the location of the new campus, though it says it's building a separate new facility in Reno, Nevada.

Apple also says it will make a "direct contribution" of more than $350 billion to the US economy over the next five years through making new investments and purchasing materials from American companies. Apple estimates it will spend $55 billion this year with its more than 9,000 American suppliers and manufacturers.

Apple to bring a lot of money home

Apple said in the announcement that it expected a repatriation tax bill of about $38 billion because of changes from the new tax law.

With the new repatriation tax rate of 15.5%, that means Apple would repatriate $245 billion, or nearly all of its overseas cash, CNBC estimated. Apple declined to comment on CNBC's math.

Apple invests in and purchases parts from American companies like Finisar, a laser company, and Corning, which makes the hardened glass that iPhones use, through its Advanced Manufacturing Fund, which Apple on Wednesday said had increased to $5 billion from $1 billion.

The Trump effect

President Donald Trump has prioritized striking deals with American companies to save or create jobs, one of his campaign promises.

Because Apple manufactures most of its products in Asia, it has become a target for Trump, who has blamed the company for contributing to the long trend of US companies moving their manufacturing overseas and encouraged it to build factories in the US.

That's why Apple makes such a big deal about its supporting American manufacturing and the fact that many of the companies that supply parts for the iPhone and other Apple products have factories in the US.

In late 2016, Apple reportedly asked its Asian manufacturing partners, including Foxconn, to look into building its products in the US.

Cook was one of several elite technology CEOs who met with Trump in December 2016.

The full announcement is below and on Apple's website:

Apple accelerates US investment and job creation

$350 Billion Contribution to US Economy Over Next Five Years

Cupertino, California — Apple today announced a new set of investments to build on its commitment to support the American economy and its workforce, concentrated in three areas where Apple has had the greatest impact on job creation: direct employment by Apple, spending and investment with Apple's domestic suppliers and manufacturers, and fueling the fast-growing app economy which Apple created with iPhone and the App Store. Apple is already responsible for creating and supporting over 2 million jobs across the United States and expects to generate even more jobs as a result of the initiatives being announced today.

Combining new investments and Apple's current pace of spending with domestic suppliers and manufacturers — an estimated $55 billion for 2018 — Apple's direct contribution to the US economy will be more than $350 billion over the next five years, not including Apple's ongoing tax payments, the tax revenues generated from employees' wages and the sale of Apple products.

Planned capital expenditures in the US, investments in American manufacturing over five years and a record tax payment upon repatriation of overseas profits will account for approximately $75 billion of Apple's direct contribution.

"Apple is a success story that could only have happened in America, and we are proud to build on our long history of support for the US economy," said Tim Cook, Apple's CEO. "We believe deeply in the power of American ingenuity, and we are focusing our investments in areas where we can have a direct impact on job creation and job preparedness. We have a deep sense of responsibility to give back to our country and the people who help make our success possible."

Apple, already the largest US taxpayer, anticipates repatriation tax payments of approximately $38 billion as required by recent changes to the tax law. A payment of that size would likely be the largest of its kind ever made.

Growing Apple's US Operations

Apple expects to invest over $30 billion in capital expenditures in the US over the next five years and create over 20,000 new jobs through hiring at existing campuses and opening a new one. Apple already employs 84,000 people in all 50 states.

The company plans to establish an Apple campus in a new location, which will initially house technical support for customers. The location of this new facility will be announced later in the year.

Over $10 billion of Apple's expanded capital expenditures will be investments in data centers across the US. Over the last decade, Apple has invested billions of dollars in data centers and co-located facilities in seven US states, including North Carolina, Oregon, Nevada, Arizona and a recently announced project in Iowa.

Today, Apple is breaking ground on a new facility in downtown Reno, which will support its existing Nevada facilities.

All of Apple's US facilities, including offices, retail stores and data centers, are powered by 100 percent renewable energy sources like solar, wind and micro-hydro power, which Apple generates or purchases from local projects. The new campus announced today will also be powered entirely by green energy.

Investing in Apple's Domestic Suppliers and Manufacturing Partners

Building on the initial success of the Advanced Manufacturing Fund announced last spring, Apple is increasing the size of the fund from $1 billion to $5 billion. The fund was established to support innovation among American manufacturers and help others establish a presence in the US. It is already backing projects with leading manufacturers in Kentucky and rural Texas.

Apple works with over 9,000 American suppliers — large and small businesses in all 50 states — and each of Apple's core products relies on parts or materials made in the US or provided by US-based suppliers.

Preparing Students for the App Economy

Apple, which has a 40-year history in education, also plans to accelerate its efforts across the US in support of coding education as well as programs focused on Science, Technology, Engineering, Arts and Math (STEAM).

The iOS app economy has created more than 1.6 million jobs in the US and generated $5 billion in revenue for American app developers in 2017. With demand for coding skills stronger than ever, today there are more than 500,000 unfilled programming-related positions across the country, and the US Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts that by 2020 there will be 1.4 million more software development jobs than applicants qualified to fill them.

To address the coding skills gap and help prepare more people for jobs in software development, Apple created a powerful yet easy-to-learn coding language called Swift, the free Swift Playgrounds app and a free curriculum, App Development with Swift, which are available to anyone and are already being used by millions of students at K-12 schools, summer camps and leading community colleges across the country. Over 100,000 students and teachers have also attended coding classes at Apple retail stores.

Apple will expand these initiatives and add new programs to support teachers and teacher training. The company is also increasing funding for its ConnectED program, so students in historically underserved communities have a chance to learn app coding skills and enjoy other benefits of technology in the classroom.

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-building-new-campus-hiring-20000-new-e mployees-2018-1



nebish - 2/2/2018 at 02:30 PM

Bernie Sanders campaigned on a living wage of $15 an hour. Who knew corporate tax reform could help achieve that!

quote:
Included among that list are BB&T Corp., Bank of America, PNC Financial Services, Wells Fargo, Fifth Third Bancorp, and more.

On Tuesday, U.S. Bank became the latest bank to take similar action in the wake of the tax bill’s passage.

U.S. Bancorp, the parent company of U.S. Bank announced Tuesday that it is handing out a $1,000 bonus to nearly 60,000 employees. The bank also plans to increase its minimum wage for all hourly employees to $15 per hour.

Additionally, the bank will be making “enhancements” to its employees’ health care options, effective for the 2019 enrollment period.

“We believe that tax reform is positive for the U.S. economy because it provides an immediate opportunity to benefit our employees, our communities and our customers,” Andy Cecere, president and chief executive officer, U.S. Bancorp, said.

https://www.housingwire.com/articles/42185-us-bank-becomes-latest-bank-to-i ncrease-wages-hand-out-bonuses-after-tax-reform


quote:
PITTSBURGH (KDKA) — PNC Financial Services Group announced today it would be investing in its employee with cash, retirement fund cash and an increase in minimum pay following today’s signing of the tax reform bill.
ADVERTISING

The company said it will provide an additional $1000 cash payment to 47,500 employees and $1,500 to their existing pension accounts.

The cash payment to 47,500 employees was estimated to reach 90% of PNC employees. It is set for all employees below an unspecified compensation band.

PNC Financial Services said they will raise the minimum pay rate to $15-an-hour by the end of 2018.

A $200-million-dollar contribution to the PNC Foundation was also announced. It supports early childhood education through PNC’s Grow Up Great initiative.

“The tax reform law creates an opportunity to reward our employees who are working hard each day to serve our customers, build strong relationships in our communities and create long-term value for our shareholders,” said William S. Demchak, PNC’s chairman, president and chief executive officer.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2017/12/22/pnc-bank-announces-employee-bonus es/



quote:
BMO Harris Bank has joined an increasing number of financial institutions in raising its minimum hourly wage to $15.

The bank cited the recent federal tax reform, which lowered the corporate income tax rate, in its decision to boost employee compensation.

The new rate is effective immediately, the company said Tuesday. BMO Harris, which is based in Chicago and owned by Toronto's BMO Financial Group, has more branches than any other bank in Wisconsin.
Like Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Business on Facebook for the latest updates right in your news feed.
Visit JS Business on Facebook

BMO Harris also said it will increase its level of philanthropic community giving by 10% in 2018.

“We’re pleased to share the benefits of the strong economic conditions, and the effects of the recent tax reform changes, with our employees and communities,” David Casper, president and chief executive of BMO Harris Bank, said in a statement.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2018/01/30/bmo-harris-bank-ra ises-hourly-minimum-wage-15-increases-community-giving/1080849001/



quote:
Three banks in Northwest Indiana raise starting wages to $15 an hour

http://www.nwitimes.com/business/lake-newsletter/three-banks-in-northwest-i ndiana-raise-starting-wages-to-an/article_1b3e76d0-8ac9-5af2-aa88-a782f2bc6 dde.html




quote:
Regions Financial Corp., which operates four bank offices in the Columbus market, has pledged to pay its employees a minimum hourly wage of $15, while also pumping a collective an additional $140 million into the communities in which it does business.

Like other companies have done in recent days, Birmingham, Ala.-based Regions noted in a release Tuesday that the money it is now promising to invest comes “in anticipation of the savings it will recognize as a result of federal tax reform intended to support economic growth.”

Read more here: http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/business/article192795129.html#storylin k=cpy


quote:
Webster Financial got in line with other companies boosting pay for employees after the federal tax cuts, pledging to raise its minimum wage to $15 an hour by the end of 2018, also awarding $1,000 cash bonuses to non-executive employees representing about 70 percent of its workforce.

http://www.thehour.com/business/article/Connecticut-bank-goes-to-15-minimum -wage-bonus-12472971.php


quote:
Associated Bank to boost minimum wage to $15, pay one-time bonuses when tax reform is signed
https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2017/12/21/associated-bank-bo ost-minimum-wage-15-pay-one-time-bonuses-when-tax-reform-signed/975154001/



quote:
OceanFirst Financial Corp., the holding company for OceanFirst Bank, announced Friday it will raise the bank’s hourly minimum wage to $15 within 30 days of enactment of the federal Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which makes changes to the curerent tax code for individuals and businesses.
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/oceanfirst-bank-plans-mini mum-wage-hike-to-per-hour/article_1236809b-7c7b-5009-a1b2-31e767c00a7d.html


BoytonBrother - 2/2/2018 at 03:12 PM

Same things happened under Obama.


jkeller - 2/2/2018 at 06:22 PM

Stock market is dropping bigly today. It has been down for the past week. I assume Trump will blame this on Obama.


MartinD28 - 2/2/2018 at 07:56 PM

quote:
Stock market is dropping bigly today. It has been down for the past week. I assume Trump will blame this on Obama.


Did you catch Trump's bigly lie telling us that more people watched his SOTU addres than any previous presidents? Sad day when FOX has to call him out for this.

He can conclude another successful week of lies, distortions, and criticizing his own appointees by gobbling down 4 Bigly Macs & a couple fish sandwiches.


Muleman1994 - 2/2/2018 at 08:12 PM

quote:
quote:
Stock market is dropping bigly today. It has been down for the past week. I assume Trump will blame this on Obama.


Did you catch Trump's bigly lie telling us that more people watched his SOTU addres than any previous presidents? Sad day when FOX has to call him out for this.

He can conclude another successful week of lies, distortions, and criticizing his own appointees by gobbling down 4 Bigly Macs & a couple fish sandwiches.



The Nielsen Rating prove that more people watched President Trump's SOTU address was watched by more people in history.

Just like the fact that even Google was forced to admit that President Trump's Inauguration had the biggest audience worldwide in history.

Keep crying son. You lose again.



Muleman1994 - 2/2/2018 at 08:16 PM

More than 320 companies have now announced major bonuses and wage and retirement fund increases for the workers.
Everyone of those companies has credited President Trump and the Republican's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act for their actions.



2112 - 2/2/2018 at 08:20 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Stock market is dropping bigly today. It has been down for the past week. I assume Trump will blame this on Obama.


Did you catch Trump's bigly lie telling us that more people watched his SOTU addres than any previous presidents? Sad day when FOX has to call him out for this.

He can conclude another successful week of lies, distortions, and criticizing his own appointees by gobbling down 4 Bigly Macs & a couple fish sandwiches.



The Nielsen Rating prove that more people watched President Trump's SOTU address was watched by more people in history.

Just like the fact that even Google was forced to admit that President Trump's Inauguration had the biggest audience worldwide in history.

Keep crying son. You lose again.



You need to share with us your experience on how you get through life being deaf, dumb and blind.


Muleman1994 - 2/2/2018 at 08:23 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Stock market is dropping bigly today. It has been down for the past week. I assume Trump will blame this on Obama.


Did you catch Trump's bigly lie telling us that more people watched his SOTU addres than any previous presidents? Sad day when FOX has to call him out for this.

He can conclude another successful week of lies, distortions, and criticizing his own appointees by gobbling down 4 Bigly Macs & a couple fish sandwiches.



The Nielsen Rating prove that more people watched President Trump's SOTU address was watched by more people in history.

Just like the fact that even Google was forced to admit that President Trump's Inauguration had the biggest audience worldwide in history.

Keep crying son. You lose again.



You need to share with us your experience on how you get through life being deaf, dumb and blind.



Again the facts throw you into a temper tantrum.
Back to your little safe space son.


Bhawk - 2/2/2018 at 08:24 PM

quote:
HISTORICAL STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES
Date No. of Viewers President
2/17/1993 66,900,000 Clinton
1/28/03 62,061,000 G. W. Bush
1/27/98 53,077,000 Clinton
2/24/2009 52,373,000 Obama
1/29/02 51,773,000 G.W. Bush
1/27/10 48,009,595 Obama
2/28/2017 47,741,000 Trump

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2018/viewers-watch-president-tru mp-s-state-of-the-union-2018.html



2112 - 2/2/2018 at 08:25 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Stock market is dropping bigly today. It has been down for the past week. I assume Trump will blame this on Obama.


Did you catch Trump's bigly lie telling us that more people watched his SOTU addres than any previous presidents? Sad day when FOX has to call him out for this.

He can conclude another successful week of lies, distortions, and criticizing his own appointees by gobbling down 4 Bigly Macs & a couple fish sandwiches.



The Nielsen Rating prove that more people watched President Trump's SOTU address was watched by more people in history.

Just like the fact that even Google was forced to admit that President Trump's Inauguration had the biggest audience worldwide in history.

Keep crying son. You lose again.



You need to share with us your experience on how you get through life being deaf, dumb and blind.



Again the facts throw you into a temper tantrum.
Back to your little safe space son.



You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you on the ass. You fit right in with Trump’s post fact society. Sad.


IPowrie - 2/2/2018 at 08:27 PM

The company I work for hasn't given a raise to most of its hourly workers in 15 years. They said that they will not be giving them a raise this year. I guess I can thank Trump for that. Also my year end bonus is going to be less this year so thanks Trump.

Was thinking about the $1000 bonuses companies are giving out. The set up for these bonuses are this

Less than two years: $200
Two to four years: $250
Five to nine years: $300
10 to 14 years: $400
15 to 19 years: $750
20+ years: $1,000

When I got hired in to the company I work for I got a year end bonus after four months. The amount I got before taxes would have taken 15 years working retail.


Muleman1994 - 2/2/2018 at 08:29 PM

quote:
quote:
HISTORICAL STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES
Date No. of Viewers President
2/17/1993 66,900,000 Clinton
1/28/03 62,061,000 G. W. Bush
1/27/98 53,077,000 Clinton
2/24/2009 52,373,000 Obama
1/29/02 51,773,000 G.W. Bush
1/27/10 48,009,595 Obama
2/28/2017 47,741,000 Trump

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2018/viewers-watch-president-tru mp-s-state-of-the-union-2018.html






The Nielsen Ratings only cover broadcast and cable TV.
You should try and step out into the modern world.




Bhawk - 2/2/2018 at 08:30 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
HISTORICAL STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES
Date No. of Viewers President
2/17/1993 66,900,000 Clinton
1/28/03 62,061,000 G. W. Bush
1/27/98 53,077,000 Clinton
2/24/2009 52,373,000 Obama
1/29/02 51,773,000 G.W. Bush
1/27/10 48,009,595 Obama
2/28/2017 47,741,000 Trump

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2018/viewers-watch-president-tru mp-s-state-of-the-union-2018.html






The Nielsen Ratings only cover broadcast and cable TV.
You should try and step out into the modern world.






quote:
The Nielsen Rating prove that more people watched President Trump's SOTU address was watched by more people in history.


Muleman1994 - 2/2/2018 at 08:32 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
HISTORICAL STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES
Date No. of Viewers President
2/17/1993 66,900,000 Clinton
1/28/03 62,061,000 G. W. Bush
1/27/98 53,077,000 Clinton
2/24/2009 52,373,000 Obama
1/29/02 51,773,000 G.W. Bush
1/27/10 48,009,595 Obama
2/28/2017 47,741,000 Trump

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2018/viewers-watch-president-tru mp-s-state-of-the-union-2018.html






The Nielsen Ratings only cover broadcast and cable TV.
You should try and step out into the modern world.






quote:
The Nielsen Rating prove that more people watched President Trump's SOTU address was watched by more people in history.




The Nielsen Ratings only cover broadcast and cable TV.
You should try and step out into the modern world.


BoytonBrother - 2/2/2018 at 08:34 PM

Mule, did you take off from work today? Was this "memo day" for you?


Bhawk - 2/2/2018 at 08:36 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
HISTORICAL STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES
Date No. of Viewers President
2/17/1993 66,900,000 Clinton
1/28/03 62,061,000 G. W. Bush
1/27/98 53,077,000 Clinton
2/24/2009 52,373,000 Obama
1/29/02 51,773,000 G.W. Bush
1/27/10 48,009,595 Obama
2/28/2017 47,741,000 Trump

http://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2018/viewers-watch-president-tru mp-s-state-of-the-union-2018.html






The Nielsen Ratings only cover broadcast and cable TV.
You should try and step out into the modern world.






quote:
The Nielsen Rating prove that more people watched President Trump's SOTU address was watched by more people in history.




The Nielsen Ratings only cover broadcast and cable TV.
You should try and step out into the modern world.




quote:
The Nielsen Rating prove that more people watched President Trump's SOTU address was watched by more people in history.

HISTORICAL STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES
Date No. of Viewers President
2/17/1993 66,900,000 Clinton
1/28/03 62,061,000 G. W. Bush
1/27/98 53,077,000 Clinton
2/24/2009 52,373,000 Obama
1/29/02 51,773,000 G.W. Bush
1/27/10 48,009,595 Obama
2/28/2017 47,741,000 Trump




Muleman1994 - 2/2/2018 at 09:01 PM

Apparently Bhawk is unaware of which thread he is posing in.
Technology also eludes him.

Oh well, thanks to President Trump and the Republicans the economy is rocking!


2112 - 2/2/2018 at 09:05 PM

quote:
Apparently Bhawk is unaware of which thread he is posing in.
Technology also eludes him.

Oh well, thanks to President Trump and the Republicans the economy is rocking!



And by rocking you mean the economy is continuing at the same trend as we've seen the last 8 years, except new jobs are down slightly at a 6 year low.


jkeller - 2/2/2018 at 09:05 PM

quote:
Apparently Bhawk is unaware of which thread he is posing in.
Technology also eludes him.

Oh well, thanks to President Trump and the Republicans the economy is rocking!

DJIA finished down 667 today. Nasdaq down 144. DJIA was down over 1000 for the week, or, almost 4%. Since Trump took credit for the rise, no doubt he will take blame for today.


2112 - 2/2/2018 at 09:34 PM

quote:
quote:
Apparently Bhawk is unaware of which thread he is posing in.
Technology also eludes him.

Oh well, thanks to President Trump and the Republicans the economy is rocking!

DJIA finished down 667 today. Nasdaq down 144. DJIA was down over 1000 for the week, or, almost 4%. Since Trump took credit for the rise, no doubt he will take blame for today.


Reaction to the SOTU speech?


nebish - 2/2/2018 at 09:36 PM

quote:
Same things happened under Obama.


? Care to explain? Maybe I missed the pay, benefit and bonus increases due to corporate tax cuts under the Obama administration.


nebish - 2/2/2018 at 09:42 PM

quote:
Stock market is dropping bigly today. It has been down for the past week. I assume Trump will blame this on Obama.


Well there certainly is the risk when you hang your hat too much on the stock market performance, what do you say when it declines?

Assuming the talking heads know what they are talking about, seems interest rate concerns are driving it. The underying financial news being reported by the companies and labor dept are good. Maybe it's the buy on the rumor sell on the news stuff.


nebish - 2/2/2018 at 09:46 PM

quote:
The company I work for hasn't given a raise to most of its hourly workers in 15 years. They said that they will not be giving them a raise this year. I guess I can thank Trump for that. Also my year end bonus is going to be less this year so thanks Trump.

Was thinking about the $1000 bonuses companies are giving out. The set up for these bonuses are this

Less than two years: $200
Two to four years: $250
Five to nine years: $300
10 to 14 years: $400
15 to 19 years: $750
20+ years: $1,000

When I got hired in to the company I work for I got a year end bonus after four months. The amount I got before taxes would have taken 15 years working retail.


No raise in 15 years. I'm sorry to hear that. Do you care to give any details on the line or work or employer? I assume you stay there due to lack of better opportunities locally?


jkeller - 2/2/2018 at 09:59 PM

quote:
quote:
Stock market is dropping bigly today. It has been down for the past week. I assume Trump will blame this on Obama.


Well there certainly is the risk when you hang your hat too much on the stock market performance, what do you say when it declines?

Assuming the talking heads know what they are talking about, seems interest rate concerns are driving it. The underying financial news being reported by the companies and labor dept are good. Maybe it's the buy on the rumor sell on the news stuff.


Bonds were strong today. That caused many investors to move money from the stock market to the bond market. The bond market tends to be conservative and whether or not this is a trend will take a little time to figure out. Bonds are generally stronger in a weaker economy, so if the stock market continues to fall, it may mean that investors are not so bullish as they used to be. The stock market was due for a correction and it is possible that this is what is going on. Either way, I would not invest any new money in the market until we see which way this is going in the longer term.


Muleman1994 - 2/2/2018 at 10:06 PM

I see the lefties are displaying their ignorance of how the stock market actually works.
Can any state the stock markets performance since President Trump was elected?

Hint: the best 15 months of increase in value ever.


jkeller - 2/2/2018 at 10:17 PM

quote:
I see the lefties are displaying their ignorance of how the stock market actually works.
Can any state the stock markets performance since President Trump was elected?

Hint: the best 15 months of increase in value ever.



It was the 4th best in history. That is until today. And the 15 months that you are crowing about means it started under Obama. Thanks for giving credit where it is due.

I know how the stock market works. Read my previous post and you might learn something


Muleman1994 - 2/3/2018 at 12:20 AM

quote:
quote:
I see the lefties are displaying their ignorance of how the stock market actually works.
Can any state the stock markets performance since President Trump was elected?

Hint: the best 15 months of increase in value ever.



It was the 4th best in history. That is until today. And the 15 months that you are crowing about means it started under Obama. Thanks for giving credit where it is due.

I know how the stock market works. Read my previous post and you might learn something



The stock market took off on it's historic run the day after Donald Trump was elected President.
That POS Obama presided over a weak and anemic economy.


jkeller - 2/3/2018 at 12:22 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I see the lefties are displaying their ignorance of how the stock market actually works.
Can any state the stock markets performance since President Trump was elected?

Hint: the best 15 months of increase in value ever.



It was the 4th best in history. That is until today. And the 15 months that you are crowing about means it started under Obama. Thanks for giving credit where it is due.

I know how the stock market works. Read my previous post and you might learn something



The stock market took off on it's historic run the day after Barack Obama was elected President.
That POS Bush presided over a weak and anemic economy.



Fixed that for ya.


Muleman1994 - 2/3/2018 at 02:30 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I see the lefties are displaying their ignorance of how the stock market actually works.
Can any state the stock markets performance since President Trump was elected?

Hint: the best 15 months of increase in value ever.



It was the 4th best in history. That is until today. And the 15 months that you are crowing about means it started under Obama. Thanks for giving credit where it is due.

I know how the stock market works. Read my previous post and you might learn something



The stock market took off on it's historic run the day after Barack Obama was elected President.
That POS Bush presided over a weak and anemic economy.



Fixed that for ya.



Okay, your selective editing aside, where were the bonuses for millions of workers during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration?

Where were the wage increases for the workers during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration?

Companies were running out of the U.S. during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration.




jkeller - 2/3/2018 at 02:40 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I see the lefties are displaying their ignorance of how the stock market actually works.
Can any state the stock markets performance since President Trump was elected?

Hint: the best 15 months of increase in value ever.



It was the 4th best in history. That is until today. And the 15 months that you are crowing about means it started under Obama. Thanks for giving credit where it is due.

I know how the stock market works. Read my previous post and you might learn something



The stock market took off on it's historic run the day after Barack Obama was elected President.
That POS Bush presided over a weak and anemic economy.



Fixed that for ya.



Okay, your selective editing aside, where were the bonuses for millions of workers during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration?

Where were the wage increases for the workers during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration?

Companies were running out of the U.S. during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration.






If you recall, and apparently you don't, Obama bailed out the auto companies to keep them afloat.

Do you realize what a small percentage of the tax breaks have been given out as bonuses?


nebish - 2/3/2018 at 04:30 AM

quote:
If you recall, and apparently you don't, Obama bailed out the auto companies to keep them afloat.


If Bush hadn't have acted, there may've been no auto industry to "save"

quote:
"The Bush Administration provided short-term bridge loans," Rubenstein said. "That allowed the Obama Administration to take a couple of months to assess the situation."

Aaron Bragman, the lead American automotive analyst for the financial forecasting group IHS Automotive, echoed the point. "The Bush administration is the one that actually acted to save them from an uncontrolled bankruptcy and shutdown," Bragman said. "The Obama administration's role was to fix them."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/sep/06/did-obama-save- us-automobile-industry/



quote:
On December 19, 2008, a week after Republicans in the Senate had killed a bailout bill proposed by Democrats, saying it didn’t impose big enough wage cuts on the U.A.W., Bush unilaterally agreed to lend $17.4 billion of taxpayers’ money to General Motors and Chrysler, of which $13.4 billion was to be extended immediately. He had to twist the law to get the money. Deprived of congressional funding, he diverted cash from the loathed TARP program, which Congress had already passed, but which was supposed to be restricted to rescuing the banks. “I didn’t want there to twenty-one-per-cent unemployment,” he said to a meeting of the National Automobile Dealers Association in Las Vegas last month, explaining why he acted as he did. “I didn’t want history to look back and say, ‘Bush could have done something but chose not to do it.’ ”

Obama, who in December, 2008, was the President-elect, publicly supported Bush’s move, saying it was a “necessary step to avoid a collapse in our auto industry that would have devastating consequences for our economy and our workers.” After taking office six weeks later, Obama put together an auto task force that extended tens of billions more in emergency financing to Detroit over the ensuing months, and also did what appears to have been a pretty good job in restructuring G.M. and selling Chrysler to Fiat.

Obama deserves a lot of credit for finishing the job that Bush and his Treasury Secretary, Hank Paulson, had started.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/an-inconvenient-truth-it-was-ge orge-w-bush-who-bailed-out-the-automakers



[Edited on 2/3/2018 by nebish]


jkeller - 2/3/2018 at 04:40 AM

quote:
quote:
If you recall, and apparently you don't, Obama bailed out the auto companies to keep them afloat.


If Bush hadn't have acted, there may've been no auto industry to "save"

quote:
"The Bush Administration provided short-term bridge loans," Rubenstein said. "That allowed the Obama Administration to take a couple of months to assess the situation."

Aaron Bragman, the lead American automotive analyst for the financial forecasting group IHS Automotive, echoed the point. "The Bush administration is the one that actually acted to save them from an uncontrolled bankruptcy and shutdown," Bragman said. "The Obama administration's role was to fix them."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/sep/06/did-obama-save- us-automobile-industry/



quote:
On December 19, 2008, a week after Republicans in the Senate had killed a bailout bill proposed by Democrats, saying it didn’t impose big enough wage cuts on the U.A.W., Bush unilaterally agreed to lend $17.4 billion of taxpayers’ money to General Motors and Chrysler, of which $13.4 billion was to be extended immediately. He had to twist the law to get the money. Deprived of congressional funding, he diverted cash from the loathed TARP program, which Congress had already passed, but which was supposed to be restricted to rescuing the banks. “I didn’t want there to twenty-one-per-cent unemployment,” he said to a meeting of the National Automobile Dealers Association in Las Vegas last month, explaining why he acted as he did. “I didn’t want history to look back and say, ‘Bush could have done something but chose not to do it.’ ”

Obama, who in December, 2008, was the President-elect, publicly supported Bush’s move, saying it was a “necessary step to avoid a collapse in our auto industry that would have devastating consequences for our economy and our workers.” After taking office six weeks later, Obama put together an auto task force that extended tens of billions more in emergency financing to Detroit over the ensuing months, and also did what appears to have been a pretty good job in restructuring G.M. and selling Chrysler to Fiat.

Obama deserves a lot of credit for finishing the job that Bush and his Treasury Secretary, Hank Paulson, had started.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/an-inconvenient-truth-it-was-ge orge-w-bush-who-bailed-out-the-automakers



[Edited on 2/3/2018 by nebish]


He asked what Obama did to put more money in workers pockets. I answered.

Serious question, do you come here just to jump into the middle of conversations to correct everyone with your superior knowledge?


nebish - 2/3/2018 at 04:46 AM

quote:
Do you realize what a small percentage of the tax breaks have been given out as bonuses?


Crumbs?

Employee pay increases and bonuses is just one thing these companies are doing. More money for retirement matching, boosting other benefits such as paid sick and parental leave, additional job training, investing in existing and new facilities and equipment, charitable giving, paying off debt, really any use they see fit to make their companies stronger, more productive and more competitve. Investing in and rewarding their workforce makes sense, but they are under no obligation to dedicate a certain % of their savings to employee compensation or charitable giving or capital expenditures. It is up to them to do with the money as they see fit.

So here is what Obama did:

quote:
As part of the stimulus, formally known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, single workers collected a $400 tax credit, and working couples got $800. The credit didn’t come in the form of a check; it worked out so that most workers had about $400 less in federal income taxes withheld from their paychecks spread out over the entire year.

That tax cut expired at the end of 2011. But Obama won another round of tax cuts for most workers in a December 2010 tax deal with Republicans in Congress. Those tax cuts -- a temporary reduction in worker’s payroll taxes, worth about 2 percent of total earnings -- expire in 2013. Again, the tax cut didn’t come as a check, but gives workers a little more in their paychecks than they would have otherwise.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/07/barack-obama /barack-obama-said-hes-cut-taxes-middle-class-famil/



$400 was nice right? 2% was good right? More money in their paychecks right - a good thing?

Well it was good then, but bad now.

People are going to start seeing more money in their take home pay now ontop of companies rewarding them. And most are going to pay less taxes on it. Sounds good to me!



[Edited on 2/3/2018 by nebish]


nebish - 2/3/2018 at 04:50 AM

quote:
Serious question, do you come here just to jump into the middle of conversations to correct everyone with your superior knowledge?


We both know muleman doesn't reply.

I see something of substance I can add to a public conversation, I contribute. I'm sorry you don't like it. I wish we had more of it.

My knowledge isn't superior. I just remember certain things and like to offer web based examples to illustrate it.


2112 - 2/3/2018 at 08:54 AM

quote:
quote:
Do you realize what a small percentage of the tax breaks have been given out as bonuses?


Crumbs?

Employee pay increases and bonuses is just one thing these companies are doing. More money for retirement matching, boosting other benefits such as paid sick and parental leave, additional job training, investing in existing and new facilities and equipment, charitable giving, paying off debt, really any use they see fit to make their companies stronger, more productive and more competitve. Investing in and rewarding their workforce makes sense, but they are under no obligation to dedicate a certain % of their savings to employee compensation or charitable giving or capital expenditures. It is up to them to do with the money as they see fit.

So here is what Obama did:

quote:
As part of the stimulus, formally known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, single workers collected a $400 tax credit, and working couples got $800. The credit didn’t come in the form of a check; it worked out so that most workers had about $400 less in federal income taxes withheld from their paychecks spread out over the entire year.

That tax cut expired at the end of 2011. But Obama won another round of tax cuts for most workers in a December 2010 tax deal with Republicans in Congress. Those tax cuts -- a temporary reduction in worker’s payroll taxes, worth about 2 percent of total earnings -- expire in 2013. Again, the tax cut didn’t come as a check, but gives workers a little more in their paychecks than they would have otherwise.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/07/barack-obama /barack-obama-said-hes-cut-taxes-middle-class-famil/



$400 was nice right? 2% was good right? More money in their paychecks right - a good thing?

Well it was good then, but bad now.

People are going to start seeing more money in their take home pay now ontop of companies rewarding them. And most are going to pay less taxes on it. Sounds good to me!
[Edited on 2/3/2018 by nebish]


I'm ok with giving billionaires a $400 tax refund. They don't need a multimillion dollar tax cut though. I mean somebody has to pay for Mike Pence's quarter million dollar, 10 minute football game stunts. And corporate welfare. The money's got to come from somewhere for all these important functions of government.


pops42 - 2/3/2018 at 01:06 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
I see the lefties are displaying their ignorance of how the stock market actually works.
Can any state the stock markets performance since President Trump was elected?

Hint: the best 15 months of increase in value ever.



It was the 4th best in history. That is until today. And the 15 months that you are crowing about means it started under Obama. Thanks for giving credit where it is due.

I know how the stock market works. Read my previous post and you might learn something



The stock market took off on it's historic run the day after Barack Obama was elected President.
That POS Bush presided over a weak and anemic economy.



Fixed that for ya.



Okay, your selective editing aside, where were the bonuses for millions of workers during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration?

Where were the wage increases for the workers during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration?

Companies were running out of the U.S. during the 8 years of Obama's failed administration.




What are you doing with your extra 14 dollars a week?


Bhawk - 2/3/2018 at 05:44 PM

quote:
If Bush hadn't have acted, there may've been no auto industry to "save"


The American economy collapsed at the end of his second term. Helluva nice guy, though?


nebish - 2/4/2018 at 04:27 AM

quote:
quote:
If Bush hadn't have acted, there may've been no auto industry to "save"


The American economy collapsed at the end of his second term. Helluva nice guy, though?


There was always the alternative, do nothing as many within his party wanted.


MartinD28 - 2/4/2018 at 07:39 PM

Here's a glaring example of success of the tax cut. This from the same Paul Ryan who has talked about vouchers for Medicare & tinkering with Social Security.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/paul-ryan-slammed-over-tweet-praising-tax-cut-06 1603496.html


2112 - 2/4/2018 at 08:06 PM

quote:
Here's a glaring example of success of the tax cut. This from the same Paul Ryan who has talked about vouchers for Medicare & tinkering with Social Security.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/paul-ryan-slammed-over-tweet-praising-tax-cut-06 1603496.html


Let them eat cake, or at least a Ho Ho once a week.


nebish - 2/5/2018 at 04:04 AM

quote:
quote:
Here's a glaring example of success of the tax cut. This from the same Paul Ryan who has talked about vouchers for Medicare & tinkering with Social Security.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/paul-ryan-slammed-over-tweet-praising-tax-cut-06 1603496.html


Let them eat cake, or at least a Ho Ho once a week.


What an utter idiot.

Look you know I support these tax cuts and I believe there is going to be economic success stemming from them. It's not the exact bill I would've written, but I would've voted for it.

For a person like me, or any supporter of the tax cuts, there are many ways to paint the positives on this.

How stupid does one have to be to undermine the message with a tweet like that? I mean, was it hacked or something? Just pure stupidity. Maybe Republicans should just stop tweeting, they aren't very good at it.


MartinD28 - 2/5/2018 at 01:40 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Here's a glaring example of success of the tax cut. This from the same Paul Ryan who has talked about vouchers for Medicare & tinkering with Social Security.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/paul-ryan-slammed-over-tweet-praising-tax-cut-06 1603496.html


Let them eat cake, or at least a Ho Ho once a week.


What an utter idiot.

Look you know I support these tax cuts and I believe there is going to be economic success stemming from them. It's not the exact bill I would've written, but I would've voted for it.

For a person like me, or any supporter of the tax cuts, there are many ways to paint the positives on this.

How stupid does one have to be to undermine the message with a tweet like that? I mean, was it hacked or something? Just pure stupidity. Maybe Republicans should just stop tweeting, they aren't very good at it.

Agree - very stupid statement on part of Ryan. But he's playing follow the leader, and look how stupid and inaccurate many of Trump's tweets are.

I wouldn't have voted for the tax bill, as I think the addition to deficit with hopes for growth offset are speculative. The deficit hawks in Congress rolled over. If the percentages given to middle class earners would have been greater and less for the uber rich and a bit less for businesses, I might have considered it more fair. Give the greatest amount to the greatest % of population who who have the greatest potential for spending. I like that approach rather than top down.


IPowrie - 2/5/2018 at 03:59 PM

quote:
quote:
The company I work for hasn't given a raise to most of its hourly workers in 15 years. They said that they will not be giving them a raise this year. I guess I can thank Trump for that. Also my year end bonus is going to be less this year so thanks Trump.

Was thinking about the $1000 bonuses companies are giving out. The set up for these bonuses are this

Less than two years: $200
Two to four years: $250
Five to nine years: $300
10 to 14 years: $400
15 to 19 years: $750
20+ years: $1,000

When I got hired in to the company I work for I got a year end bonus after four months. The amount I got before taxes would have taken 15 years working retail.


No raise in 15 years. I'm sorry to hear that. Do you care to give any details on the line or work or employer? I assume you stay there due to lack of better opportunities locally?


Company is Steelcase and I've been there five years now. Not sure why people have stayed but I think that they didn't want to start at the bottom seniority wise somewhere else. I've stayed because nothing that pays more has been offered to me,the work I do is easy and I like being done with work at 2 in the afternoon.


jkeller - 2/5/2018 at 08:43 PM

The Dow is down 1000 after being down 666 on Friday. Is Trump still taking credit for the market?


MartinD28 - 2/5/2018 at 10:42 PM

quote:
The Dow is down 1000 after being down 666 on Friday. Is Trump still taking credit for the market?


Trump always claims the best and most bigly things. So...he owns this. Bet he'll stop by Mickey D's tonight & celebrate in his usual manner...couple Bigly Macs with a porn star for dessert.

"Stocks tumbled on Monday.
The Dow fell 1,175.21 points, the largest one-day point drop in history.
Previous large one-day drops include several days during the financial crisis, and the first trading day after the September 11, 2001 terror attacks."


nebish - 2/6/2018 at 02:21 AM

quote:

Company is Steelcase and I've been there five years now. Not sure why people have stayed but I think that they didn't want to start at the bottom seniority wise somewhere else. I've stayed because nothing that pays more has been offered to me,the work I do is easy and I like being done with work at 2 in the afternoon.


Thanks, I was wondering, but it looks like you are outside of the auto company factories and plants.


nebish - 2/6/2018 at 02:26 AM

quote:
The Dow is down 1000 after being down 666 on Friday. Is Trump still taking credit for the market?


Well, we had the "Trump bump" after the election...

...one could say our current stock market is the "Trump slump". You like that one?

Markets go up, markets go down. Experts on news can't accurately predict it either way. I do think there was anticipation and expectation of something out of the Trump administration that lead to the gradual market incline to the steep gains. So they got what they wanted. Now the guessers, I mean 'experts' are back to guessing what is going on.


jkeller - 2/6/2018 at 02:50 AM

quote:
quote:
The Dow is down 1000 after being down 666 on Friday. Is Trump still taking credit for the market?


Well, we had the "Trump bump" after the election...

...one could say our current stock market is the "Trump slump". You like that one?

Markets go up, markets go down. Experts on news can't accurately predict it either way. I do think there was anticipation and expectation of something out of the Trump administration that lead to the gradual market incline to the steep gains. So they got what they wanted. Now the guessers, I mean 'experts' are back to guessing what is going on.


Well, that wasn't my point, but whatever.


Muleman1994 - 2/8/2018 at 09:36 PM

quote:
quote:
The Dow is down 1000 after being down 666 on Friday. Is Trump still taking credit for the market?


Well, we had the "Trump bump" after the election...

...one could say our current stock market is the "Trump slump". You like that one?

Markets go up, markets go down. Experts on news can't accurately predict it either way. I do think there was anticipation and expectation of something out of the Trump administration that lead to the gradual market incline to the steep gains. So they got what they wanted. Now the guessers, I mean 'experts' are back to guessing what is going on.


The stock market is still up over 20% since President Trump won the election.
Unemployment is at 4.1%
Wages are climbing for the first time in eight years.
Taxes are far lower for the working class.


Muleman1994 - 3/9/2018 at 03:10 PM

313K jobs added in February that include over 290K with wages above the living wage level.
The Stock Market jumps over 25,000.


2112 - 3/9/2018 at 03:41 PM

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/374799-poll-most-americans-not-getting-bi gger-paychecks-in-wake-of-tax-overhaul?amp

Poll: Most Americans not getting bigger paychecks in wake of tax overhaul


More than half of U.S. voters say they have not noticed an increase in their paychecks following a sweeping series of tax cuts signed into law by President Trump last month, according to a new Politico-Morning Consult poll.

Just 25 percent of registered voters reported an increase in their pay, compared to 51 percent who said they did not.

The number of employed voters who noticed an increase was higher, at 37 percent, according to the poll. Still, 53 percent said they haven't noticed an increase in their paychecks.

Respondents who identify as Republicans were more likely to report higher paychecks after the tax overhaul, pollsters found. Thirty-two percent of Republicans said they have noticed higher paychecks, compared to 21 percent of Democrats and 22 percent of independents.

Trump and congressional Republicans have touted the tax cuts as a way to bolster economic growth. The law slashed the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, and offers a series of temporary individual tax cuts.

But opponents of the law have argued that it is a massive windfall for corporations and the wealthiest Americans, and that middle- and lower-income people will not see the same benefits as high-earners.



Muleman1994 - 3/9/2018 at 04:29 PM

quote:
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/374799-poll-most-americans-not-gett ing-bigger-paychecks-in-wake-of-tax-overhaul?amp

Poll: Most Americans not getting bigger paychecks in wake of tax overhaul


More than half of U.S. voters say they have not noticed an increase in their paychecks following a sweeping series of tax cuts signed into law by President Trump last month, according to a new Politico-Morning Consult poll.

Just 25 percent of registered voters reported an increase in their pay, compared to 51 percent who said they did not.

The number of employed voters who noticed an increase was higher, at 37 percent, according to the poll. Still, 53 percent said they haven't noticed an increase in their paychecks.

Respondents who identify as Republicans were more likely to report higher paychecks after the tax overhaul, pollsters found. Thirty-two percent of Republicans said they have noticed higher paychecks, compared to 21 percent of Democrats and 22 percent of independents.

Trump and congressional Republicans have touted the tax cuts as a way to bolster economic growth. The law slashed the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent, and offers a series of temporary individual tax cuts.

But opponents of the law have argued that it is a massive windfall for corporations and the wealthiest Americans, and that middle- and lower-income people will not see the same benefits as high-earners.






Your post references an opinion piece from a far-left and corrupt media website who touts poll that either does not exist or they know it is crap and will not report who took the poll or any details.

Sounds more like a Washington post/ABC News fake poll.

Hiding behind crap still stinks.


Sang - 3/9/2018 at 07:31 PM

You should know...........


Muleman1994 - 3/9/2018 at 11:10 PM

quote:
You should know...........


No son, The American People know as proven by their jobs and excellent wages.

Kinda sucks to be a loser isn't it?


Sang - 3/9/2018 at 11:30 PM

Not a loser at all. Retired for 4 years (retired at 58), good pension, solid IRA savings, great wife and kids. Play as much golf as I want and still go to a lot of concerts. Met of lot of good people and friends thru this site.

Better than just being a troll on a band's internet site..........


jkeller - 3/10/2018 at 12:07 AM

quote:
quote:
You should know...........


No son, The American People know as proven by their jobs and excellent wages.

Kinda sucks to be a loser isn't it?



I don’t know. I would imagine that you are over qualified to answer that one.


Muleman1994 - 3/10/2018 at 01:36 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
You should know...........


No son, The American People know as proven by their jobs and excellent wages.

Kinda sucks to be a loser isn't it?



I don’t know. I would imagine that you are over qualified to answer that one.


Under President Trump the U.S. economy is rocking.
Sucks for you eh?


2112 - 3/10/2018 at 02:08 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
You should know...........


No son, The American People know as proven by their jobs and excellent wages.

Kinda sucks to be a loser isn't it?



I don’t know. I would imagine that you are over qualified to answer that one.


Under President Trump the U.S. economy is rocking.
Sucks for you eh?




And if by that you mean almost doing as well as it was during Obama you're right.


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