Thread: First Derek interview as an Allman Brothers member

AlPaul - 6/13/2018 at 03:38 PM


Yesterday was the anniversary of Derek Trucks' first show as a member of the Allman Brothers Band - 6/12/99 at Red Rocks. To mark the day I dug out what I believe was his first interview as a member. He was asking as many questions as me.
http://bit.ly/2HJDEwB


blackey - 6/13/2018 at 05:44 PM

Good interview. First show I saw after Derek joined was in Las Vegas and he sounded like a long time member. Dickey played a vintage 50's Strat with lots of road wear and Derek played an SG so the no Les Paul on the stage trend continued that began with Jack joining.

Dickey and the entire band sounded hot that night and not long afterwards I read a post from Butch saying he and the band were surprised when Jack suddenly quit and Dickey called him to ask if he thought Derek was ready and Butch said he didn't know as he had only heard Derek Olay slide which is top notch slide but he didn't know how he would be on lead. Butch said Derek had that down too and Derek actually reminds Dickey and Gregg of Duane and Derek has so inspired Dickey that he is playing the best right now in years. Well that didn't last long.

Many fans on this site including myself were disappointed with Warren and Allen's departure. Some of us including myself had heard the rumor that is was more than wanting to do Govt Mule full time, that Dickey had pulled a knife on Allen. I didn't believe it then was stand corrected by Mr. Paul's recent fine book. But in 1997 I saw 5 shows and with Jack and Otiel I was relieved that at every show, the band was really hot. Jack's slide playing actually sounded more like Duane to me so I was shocked and disappointed as were many here to learn that Jack had suddenly quit. Why? It's crazy.

But the band dodged another bullet when Derek joined as he was perfect for the band.

After Dickey was ousted, to me, the band was still good. Maybe too tight. I missed that looseness and ying and yang they had with Dickey but I go back to 1970. With new fans the last lineup was the ABB and with all the front line players but Gregg now gone it was hard to get use to. But no denying the last line up was tight and on its game. I think I would have liked it better if they didn't play any Dickey songs which is exactly what Butch said he wanted but it never happened. In one of Butch's last interviews he said the last lineup technically was the best but the jumping off into the unknown stopped and actually had mostly stopped after Duane died. He said he knew exactly what Warren and Derek were going to do and it was time for that band to break up. I thought that was odd because apparently Derek, Warren and even Gregg had wanted to quit at the 40th and it was Butch pushing to keep going.


Jonesy - 6/13/2018 at 06:16 PM

quote:
In one of Butch's last interviews he said the last lineup technically was the best but the jumping off into the unknown stopped and actually had mostly stopped after Duane died. He said he knew exactly what Warren and Derek were going to do and it was time for that band to break up. I thought that was odd because apparently Derek, Warren and even Gregg had wanted to quit at the 40th and it was Butch pushing to keep going.


I don't understand the comment that jumping off into the "unknown" had stopped after Duane died. Upon the death of Duane, the band was just starting to spread out their musical approach from the very standard setlists they had played since inception (See Blue Sky from Stonybrook 1971). The Eat A Peach album was the start of a new era, without a doubt with the new tunes the band was putting out. When Chuck joined the band, they went off in a totally new direction, in part because of the new instrumentation makeup of the band, but they turned really jazzy to my ears during the Chuck era. Dickey was a driving force with his new material and when they ultimately reformed in 1989 both Dickey and Warren, with some from Gregg went off in another direction. Anyway, just an observation that I guess I don't see that thought the same way.


steadyhorse - 6/13/2018 at 06:50 PM

Thanks for the read, I'd love to hear the tapes of Jackie P that Derek listened too...


WaitinForRain - 6/13/2018 at 09:03 PM

At one point way back after The Fax, there was an article online (since removed)
that said DB had slugged BT and knocked him off his drum stool.

I always wondered if he had - event seems to fit what we know of both personalities ;-)


How do you know it was Butch that sunk the idea of the band quitting after the 40th?


Southernfan - 6/13/2018 at 10:26 PM

Thought I’d read most old Brother’s interviews but ran onto another one with Dickey after the fax. He said something about the rest of the band not wanting to use his compositions and he didnt feel like he was being utilized (I’m paraphrasing). I read in another that Butch didnt really want to record new music. I guess that makes sense now, knowing his situation, since it was expensive to record and he just wanted the money from endless touring. Wasnt he the one who wanted their Beacon runs to be much longer?

Derek is a GREAT guitarist/slide player, but that Indian inflected style is just too noisy/busy to my ears for Allman Bros. He and Warren changed the sound completely and not for the better, for me at least. Warren & Dickey were the **** together. Warren had a tendency to wank on a bit at times, but overall he was a pretty good fit at that time. Remember Greggs comment to Warren walking past him on the bus after a particularly long, nasty solo? “Ok, who’s the Phish fan”? Then he came back thru and told him “it was just too much”.


blackey - 6/14/2018 at 01:33 AM

Jonesy Butch's last interviews are on YouTube. To make it more confusing, in interviews with Derek and Warren they made it clear they hung on after the 40th because of Butch. And they indicated the band met and agreed the 45th anniversary would absolutely be the end but one member was getting cold feet about ended the band so Derek and Warren jointly notified the band they were leaving after the 45th. Then they revealed it was Butch. The band ended because Gregg opted out too saying he was interested in finding new guitar players.

As to Butch's comment about jumping off into the deep end, Butch talks about that in his 2016 interviews and talked about how he is stressing to The Freight Train Band let's do it Duane Allman's way and don't be afraid when it's your turn to solo, jump off into the deep end and take me somewhere new. That the original Allman Brothers on many songs including Mountain Jam, Whipping Post, Liz Reed, we didn't know where it would go one night to the next. Yes sometimes it was a train wreck but most of the time we played stuff we had never played before. And that after Duane died that pretty much stopped and Dickey took over and we became too country. He went on to add during the Derek/Warren band it stopped completely. Butch said he knew exactly what Warren and Derek we're going to play. That they were to afraid of mistakes and train wrecks and after a few years it gets boring. Now to me part of that was the failure of the band to record a new album in the years after Hitting the Note. And it could be Butch was one who couldn't see the point of doing a new album in an era that it's so hard for a band like the ABB to get airplay and decent sales. I use to hear Hitting the Note sold 200,000 copies which is decent but I've read since it was 36,000 which is slim for the ABB.

So it is true the original band played much the same set every night but how those songs were played was a daring experiement every night. I think Dickey said the Whipping Post on the Filmore album was the first time they played some of the stuff they played that night and they never played it again.


slothrop8 - 6/14/2018 at 02:01 AM

Fun to read that interview now. I can't believe almost 20 years have passed since the newest of new guys - Derek Trucks - joined the band.

Alan, I remember reading your piece about Derek getting the mushroom tattoo during the last run of shows in 2014 - it's funny to see you ask him the question in this first interview in '99 and him be like "maybe at the end of the year". Took a little longer than that.


burroboy69 - 6/14/2018 at 02:45 AM

Thanks for the read, it was interesting reading his thought process of how he was going to approach the music. I thought he always played well with whoever he was on stage with. I love how the original lineup liked to spread out but I thought Derek and Warren did a great job of pushing the music forward as well. Maybe not as "out there" as the original lineup but I still enjoy it.


steved - 6/14/2018 at 01:19 PM

The comment that Southernfan mentions Gregg made to Warren about being a Phish fan was actually said to Derek and Jimmy after a show where they took Mt Jam into outer space. Still makes me laugh to think of Gregg saying that.


AlPaul - 6/14/2018 at 01:59 PM

Steve is correct... the story comes from One Way Out... and when I spoke to Jimmy he said, "Wow, Derek told you that!?" He had told me the same story without the Phish part... about Gregg being upset and coming back up front...


redhouse1969 - 6/14/2018 at 02:26 PM

Alan,

Thanks for posting the interview. Cool early thoughts from a guy that has become a force of nature on the guitar. Wonder if anyone had an inkling on what he would become.


BrerRabbit - 6/14/2018 at 03:08 PM

Thx Al, always enjoy your stuff. Haha, loved "Music is sort of all I do." classic line.


Joe_the_Lurker - 6/14/2018 at 05:52 PM

It's not rocket science to look at Dickey's net worth, around 40 million, and Butch's net worth, about -1.5 million, to understand why Butch never wanted to end the band. It seems like he spent years and years trying to form businesses to try to break even. During the Fax era, Dickey didn't want to blend Allman Brothers business with Butch Trucks business, referring to Flying Frog Records.

I can't blame Butch at all for trying to survive. It's gotta eat on you over the decades when you are broke and your bandmates, Gregg and Dickey, are millionaires, and you were there paying the same dues they were. I wish the Allmans were like The Doors and credited the songs to everybody, but that didn't happen. The irony is that I have read that it was Duane who said the songwriter gets the credit, and Butch was such a Duane disciple.

Derek probably realized that you had to lead a band to make a real living at it, but was pressured by Butch to stay for 5 years longer than his heart was in it. That TTB album cover comes to mind for Made up Mind, with that Buffalo charging head first into the Freight Train. I can't imagine how hard Butch's death is for Derek. Well, maybe I can. My uncle ended his life the same way back in 98.


blackey - 6/14/2018 at 08:17 PM

Luke I've been an ABB fan since I first saw them in 1970 and made as many shows as possible but it was tough going a hundred miles or more then going to work the next day with no sleep or not going at all and risking my job but it was like a religion. In 1971 a few of us quit work for the summer and ended up broke and sick but smiling because we saw the Brothers 8 or 10 times in a month.

They were all happy and a band of brothers then at least to the fans. After Duane was killed, Butch seem to get along with Dickey and it was Gregg he would rag on in interviews once saying "You can't count on Gregg Allman for anything." When the band decided to back out of things in 1982 because of changing trends, Clive Davis shutting them out of the studio etc, Butch formed a band with Dickey called Betts, Hall, Levalle, Trucks

Yes Dickey is worth about 40 million, Gregg about 15 million but Gregg filed bankruptcy years ago and had to start over. I think Butch was worth about 4 million by the mid 90s. He had a couple of places to live that were high dollar. Jaimoe was flat broke by 1982 and really struggled. But he recovered during the 1990s and is worth a couple of million now I've heard. But don't quote me, that may be off.

Polydore released A Decade of Hits in 1991 featuring songs from the first album, Idlewild South, Fillmore, Eat A Peach, Brothers and Sisters and one from Elightened Rogues. That thing out sold their new material albums on Epic where just one, Where It All Begins, sold north of 500,000 and went gold. The album of old material sold over 2 million and went double platinum. Butch Truck's was a sepcial fan favorite back then because he often posted back then and even answered questions including minor things such as who is laughing on Black Hearted Woman and at the end of Pony Boy. BTW he said its Oakley laughing after the chant on Black Hearted Woman and that is him (Butch) laughing at the end of Pony Boy because he and Dickey added some knee slapping at the end and Dickey changed it up on him and he chuckled. Well Butch answered some questions about the best hits release and indicated the band had nothing to do with that and the tracks were owned by Capricorn and ended up with the old Mercury label when Phil Walden went bankrupt. He complained he didn't make anything off that but Dickey and Gregg made millions from song writing credits and he mentioned a couple of songs including Liz Reed he felt he should have received a credit. I think the other may have been Whipping Post and Oakley should have too. He mentioned writing a percussion part for Madness From Out Of The West but when the record came out only Dickey was credited and Dickey did it was .because that was the way Duane said it should be done. The one who wrote the original version or idea owns the song.

Soon afterward Butch began forming businesses I imagine for him to create a way to make money similar to Gregg and Dickey in addition to being played for playing in the band. Butch wanted the band to be involved in those businesses but Dickey wouldn't allow it. Dickey voted against it every time and pressured Gregg to do the same. Personally my guess that is when Butch began to dislike Dickey and with Dickey's increasing his drinking and drug use, it played into Butches hands. Gregg supposedly quit drinking and drugs in 1997 and Butch said suddenly Dickey didn't have anyone in the band living like he did and he got even worse and when Butch found out Gregg was going to quit from Gregg's then wife, Butch called Gregg and convinced Gregg he should stay and Dickey should be sacked. They called Jaimoe but he would only agree to a temporary split but it was still 3 to 1.

Butch apparently didn't keep up with his IRS obligations as a man in business for himself has to and was eventually hit with enormous back tax bills that were taking everything. And that led to his death. That is the way it looks to me from putting together all I read. It's sad. Butch was a good guy and the backbone, the freight train, of the band. It's sad what happened to Dickey and Warren said Dickey's sound and material is a huge part of the band. But it eased my concern for him after he ended up playing small crowds in often bars when I found out he is rich and set for life. But it still hurt him and he had nothing to do with anybody in the band and actually sued the band and got a big settlement in arbitration. Loosing Duane was a huge blow then Oakely. Sometime back Jaimoe told a reporter " this band is always breaking down."


blackey - 6/14/2018 at 08:37 PM

Alan Paul should know the real scoop on these sad things. Alan I noticed an interview with Butch not long before he died and he said something like Gregg is so messed up. And the person doing the interview quickly injected I thought Gregg got sober in 1997. Well Butch didn't say anything and there was a long pause then Butch indicated Gregg abuses prescription meds. You may not recall that or you may not want to comment. It's probably best to not comment. I read every time I could find on the band starting in 1970 and before the internet one could go months and not see much. I remember eating breakfast at my mother's house and she had the Today show on and Frank Blair began the latest news and he said " A member of the famed Allman Brothers Band was killed in a motorcycle crash." I jumped up and ran to the TV shocked and wondering who. It was Duane the last one I would have guessed."

Well your book One Way Out gave so much clarity to some of the rumors hard core fans use to hear over the years. Dickey breaking Butch's nose and pulling a knife on Allen Woody were two I hoped were not true we heard in the 1990s. Thank you for the book. How in the hell did those things get out? Leaks I suppose.


tbomike - 6/14/2018 at 09:50 PM

Butch said lots of things. Here is what he said right here on this guest book after night 1 of 2013 Beacon stand. Not 2009 or 05 or 03 or 1994 but 2013.

And it was hardly the only time he said things like this.



"Damn. What an opening night. Might be one of our best sets ever. I am very sore today from playing with that much power. Gregg was as spot on as he's been in decades actually pushing us on some of the tunes he use to have trouble with. Life is great and the Beacon seems to be one major hot spot!"

As for the original post thanks for posting the old interview Alan.


DeadMallard - 6/15/2018 at 12:12 AM


[Edited on 6/15/2018 by DeadMallard]

sorry post meant for another thread

[Edited on 6/15/2018 by DeadMallard]


goodlawdy2 - 6/15/2018 at 03:18 AM

Alan thanks for posting the interview with Derek. That was an exciting time to be a fan. It seemed like the magic was about to be rekindled again. Me & a buddy went to see Derek's band at a bar in Tallahassee right when the news came out that he would be joining the ABB. We told him we were going to catch them in Atlanta at the end of the tour. Derek laughed and said "I'll know the tunes by then". At the time I thought yeah right, but he probably was referring to the newer stuff like True Gravity.

Talking about Butch posting here, I rarely post but back in the day I asked Butch a question that I don't remember. But I do remember Butch taking the time to answer, and being an FSU alum, busting my chops for being a UF Gator. He said something to the effect of "Oh yeah, the swamp, you smell it long before you step in it ".




Holt - 6/15/2018 at 10:55 AM

Here's the show y'all are referring to. 6/21/00. Almost 18 years to the day.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ujztCwRsepY

I caught the first one of the tour where they opened with MJ in Va Beach 6/16/00 and then two nights later on Father's Day in Charlotte 6/18. Both absolutely great shows that showed the Brothers were as strong as ever. I regret missing the Raleigh show a few months later. Never caught a live Loan Me A Dime in person with the Brothers. Same with Layla. Missed that one by a night in '03. Caught Raleigh the next night with Branford which is on the new release out today Cream of the Crop.

quote:
Steve is correct... the story comes from One Way Out... and when I spoke to Jimmy he said, "Wow, Derek told you that!?" He had told me the same story without the Phish part... about Gregg being upset and coming back up front...


islalala - 6/15/2018 at 03:46 PM

quote:
Butch said lots of things. Here is what he said right here on this guest book after night 1 of 2013 Beacon stand. Not 2009 or 05 or 03 or 1994 but 2013.

And it was hardly the only time he said things like this.



"Damn. What an opening night. Might be one of our best sets ever. I am very sore today from playing with that much power. Gregg was as spot on as he's been in decades actually pushing us on some of the tunes he use to have trouble with. Life is great and the Beacon seems to be one major hot spot!"

As for the original post thanks for posting the old interview Alan.




I remember that quote from Butch in 2013 and have to say there's nothing in there to argue about. I will be in the minority here but 2013 Beacon the band was playing on par or better than its 09 level and unmatched until the last run in Oct '14


blackey - 6/15/2018 at 05:41 PM

The last line up was the hottest in the wake of the release of Hitting the Note. They had new material and sometimes did shows with no Dickey songs which is what Butch wanted. More than once Butch said he wanted the current lineup not to play any of Dickey's songs.

Also most often including interviews done not long before his death, Butch said the best show the Allman Brothers ever played was the next to the last time they played the Fillmore East. Next to the closing night show. He also said they had more or less become the house band there and Bill Graham began to tell the audience the band was the best band in America. Butch said before the next to the last show Bill Graham said "here is the best of them all...The Allman Brothers."

To me the best versions of One Way Out, Trouble No More, Liz Reed, Hot Lanta, Statesboro Blues, Done Somebody Wrong etc were recorded at the Fillmore and appear on Fillmore East and Eat A Peach. If any of the later lineups equaled or topped those please direct me to the recordings. Anybody? I have One Way Out recorded at the Beacon and the band's last new front line release and it's the last lineup and as good as it is it doesnt match or top the 1971 band.

I'm running into people now who think the last line up was the best line up. I can't understand how anyone can say that. Maybe if you were born after 1971 and new saw the original band.


stormyrider - 6/15/2018 at 06:07 PM

Thanks - for posting, great interview.

thought I'd share this quote here- one of the guys I work with has a son who is just trying to breaking into music journalism. He recently interviewed Tom Hamilton (JRAD)

quote:
JL: Who are some of your favorite contemporaries on the scene right now?

TH: Y’know, Derek. Derek Trucks I think is probably the best guitar player alive. It’s just, I don’t even understand it, what he does. Yeah man, he’s probably the dude that any time I have an opportunity to watch him play, I’ll watch



for anyone interested, full interview is here
https://behindthegear.net/


islalala - 6/15/2018 at 06:13 PM

I suppose we could argue until the sun goes down which lineup was the best, but I can unequivocally say the last lineup was my favorite!

Amazing talent highlighted by the man named in this thread that gelled over 13 years together playing the widest variety of setlists at the highest level possible.


Holt - 6/15/2018 at 09:12 PM

One of my most favorite shows I saw in 2007 was the dTb with American Babies(Tom Hamilton's band at the time) opening. The American Babies were really great and that was my first exposure to them. And I've enjoyed TH in Billy and the Kids a couple times and also JRAD. He speaks the truth. Derek is the one single musician who I've seen live more than any other musician. Funny thing is as GREAT as DT is and has been I don't even think he was the best overall guitarist to pass through the ABB . . . Jack Pearson, IMHO, takes that one. Just amazing how lucky we all are to have so many top notch musicians to listen to in and around this musical family.

quote:
Thanks - for posting, great interview.

thought I'd share this quote here- one of the guys I work with has a son who is just trying to breaking into music journalism. He recently interviewed Tom Hamilton (JRAD)

quote:
JL: Who are some of your favorite contemporaries on the scene right now?

TH: Y’know, Derek. Derek Trucks I think is probably the best guitar player alive. It’s just, I don’t even understand it, what he does. Yeah man, he’s probably the dude that any time I have an opportunity to watch him play, I’ll watch



for anyone interested, full interview is here
https://behindthegear.net/


blackey - 6/15/2018 at 11:15 PM

Okay then the last line up was the best. I must have missed the shows where they played Liz Reed better that the Fillmore album and One Way Out better than Eat A Peach. I must have accidentally put on the wrong CD when I got a copy of Hitting the Note as it didn't strike me being better than Fillmore East, Eat A Peach or even Brothers and Sisters.

And what song on Hitting the Note became an ABB classic such as Midnight Rider, Dreams, Whipping Post, Blue Sky, Ain't Waisting Time No More or the songs on Brothers and Sisters such as Jessica, Southbound, Wasted Words?

Someone direct me to recordings of Liz Reed or Blue Sky or Statesboro Blues by the last line up that tops Fillmore East or Eat A Peach.

Are there people here who think Hitting the Note is better than Eat A Peach?

Eat A Peach: 2,437,000 copies sold. Double Platinum. Hitting the Note apparently 36,000 copies though I've also heard 200,000 copies.

With all due respect to the last line up and Derek and Warren who are great musicians, YOU PEOPLE MUST NOT GOT TO SEE THE ORIGINAL LINEUP.


cmgst34 - 6/16/2018 at 01:43 AM

quote:
Okay then the last line up was the best. I must have missed the shows where they played Liz Reed better that the Fillmore album and One Way Out better than Eat A Peach. I must have accidentally put on the wrong CD when I got a copy of Hitting the Note as it didn't strike me being better than Fillmore East, Eat A Peach or even Brothers and Sisters.

And what song on Hitting the Note became an ABB classic such as Midnight Rider, Dreams, Whipping Post, Blue Sky, Ain't Waisting Time No More or the songs on Brothers and Sisters such as Jessica, Southbound, Wasted Words?

Someone direct me to recordings of Liz Reed or Blue Sky or Statesboro Blues by the last line up that tops Fillmore East or Eat A Peach.

Are there people here who think Hitting the Note is better than Eat A Peach?

Eat A Peach: 2,437,000 copies sold. Double Platinum. Hitting the Note apparently 36,000 copies though I've also heard 200,000 copies.

With all due respect to the last line up and Derek and Warren who are great musicians, YOU PEOPLE MUST NOT GOT TO SEE THE ORIGINAL LINEUP.


Holy hell, dude. You’re arguing with yourself here I think.


blackey - 6/16/2018 at 03:33 AM

No I'm getting Email from a different site thats actually about a different band and a few posts here claiming the last lineup of the ABB was their best. So I was saying "Okay the last line up was the best" because I'm hearing from about 7 people who saw the last lineup several times and it was the best band ever. Derek Truck's is the best guitar player playing today anywhere. He is. Certainly one of the best but its a big world. One person admitted he had never seen the original band but has heard Fillmore East and Eat A Peach and Derek, Warren and Otiel can play circles around Duane, Dickey and Berry Oakley.

I think all will have to admit the original material from the original lineup and the next line up was never equaled by later lineups. I have Hitting the Note the last studio album from the band and I don't hear an album that tops Eat A Peach or Fillmore East or Brothers and Sisters for that matter. So I will admit I have been corrected if someone will please direct me to last line up versions of Statesboro Blues, Done Somebody Wrong, You Don't Love Me, Whipping Post, One Way Out, Trouble No More, Blue Sky etc that are played better that what the original line up did on Fillmore East and Eat A Peach. Somehow I haven't run across those performances.


BIGV - 6/16/2018 at 05:00 AM

quote:
I think all will have to admit the original material from the original lineup and the next line up was never equaled by later lineups.


My vote goes to the original 6. Hands down.


slothrop8 - 6/16/2018 at 06:37 PM

I'll take the bait (warning - this is going to be long) and offer my opinion because I'm someone who does like the last lineup the best. I was born in 1976 and only saw the last lineup live - but I've got tons of shows from every period and all the albums, and I'm basing my thoughts on the recordings more so than being there. That being said, the Allman Brothers are my favorite band and one of the things I enjoy as a fan are listening to the different lineups of the band through the years and hearing how different players and different instrumentation puts new spins on familiar material. I love almost every lineup - not crazy about the Lawler/Tolers group in the early 80s - and less enthusiastic about even the '79 group - but I there are lots and lots of things I love about the original group, the 5 man band, Williams/Leavell, Toler/Leavell/with the rotating bass players/ Haynes/Neel/Woody, Quinones/Haynes/Woody, Oteil and Jack, Dickey and Derek, Trucks and Herring, the final lineup, and the fall tour in '09 that was the final lineup plus Bruce Katz. I've even tracked down as much as I can from any mini-run or one-off fill-in configurations - Grissom/Haynes, Pearson/Haynes/Woody, Herring/Haynes, Haynes/Pearson/Oteil, Trucks/Herring/Louis, Trucks/Pearson/Holloway, etc. etc.

I've sought it all all out spent a lot of time with all the combinations, and for my personal taste I like the last lineup best. Not all of it, not every night of course. Some shows are better than others, and some years are better than others. I consider their best to be 2005, 2009, Spring '13, and the last run in '14 - with 2003 and especially early 2010 getting close to that level. That's not to say '02, or '06, or '08 are not good or whatever, just the years I mentioned, and especially '09 which is pretty ridiculous from start to finish are the best examples of the last lineup in my opinion.

I like that final lineup the best first and foremost because it's my belief that of all the incredible, nearly otherworldly players to pass through the ABB in it's history - that Derek Trucks is best player of them all. He stands on the shoulders of giants of course , so do we all - what we all do isn't possible at the same level without the greats that came before us, but the very best build upon what came before. I take nothing away from Duane and young Dickey when I say that, or Herring, or Jack, or Chuck, or all the others - but Derek Trucks when he really dials it in is capable of things as an improviser that hardly seem possible. He has an ability to build solos in such unique way (as does Jack btw), and an equal facility with layering on build ups of breathtaking melodic beauty and finishing with roaring power and urgency when the moment calls for it.

Further, I like the jazzy, instrumental exploration side of the band best, and at their best there are more jazz influenced excursions from the final lineup than the others - more instrumentals, more diversity and creativity in some of their excursions. At their worst some of the jamming by the last group could get stale - devolve into screaming two guitar crescendos that were easy for them - still good mind you, but easy and sometimes repetitive. But at their best, they could take things like Kind of Bird, Afro Blue, Liz Reed, Instrumental Illness, Egypt, Mountain Jam, the new outro part of Rocking Horse, the coda to Black Hearted Woman, the new outro to Nobody Left to Run With, the swing section of Desdemona, the jam in Dusk till Dawn, etc. etc. to places other bands, even other incredible bands just don't often get to in my experience.

For creating original material - certainly the original group and the immediate Dickey/Chuck era right after hasn't been equaled in terms of songwriting. They created the classic songs - and while I love lots of the of the Warren/Dickey material too - there's no doubt the original group and the lineups right after hit gold as writers. That being said, I love Desdamona, Dusk till Dawn, Rocking Horse, Egypt, Instrumental Illness, Bag End - there were some excllent originals created by or first recorded by the final lineup as well.

For standout versions of songs - for my taste - things like Statesboro Blues, Trouble No More, Done Somebody Wrong - the more straight ahead songs - almost all the versions of the band through the years execute those at a very high level. They are, IMO, relatively simple in comparison to some of the other things this band does, and there isn't much difference in a well executed version of one of those by the originals, the Warren/Dickey lineup, the last lineup, or lots of the other ones in between. Not every version every night of course, the crispness varies by the quality of night the band was having, but a lot of the more straight ahead parts of the catalog gets nailed by all the lineups at times pretty much as well as it ever was - they aren't song forms that allow for a ton of differentiation. 3/26/09 and 10/28/14 are two nights that come to mind quickly that are good examples of the more song-based songs being executed at an extremely high level - there are lots more examples, they played 13 years worth of shows after all - but that's 2 nights to come to mind right away.

For the jam vehicles - for Elizabeth Reed I hate that they chopped it up with drums/bass so often in the later years - but c'est la guerre - I'm happy to put forward 10/11/2008 as a great example of a self-contained version. There's tons more that I'm happy to have take the Pepsi challenge with Liz Reeds from the original group - 3/12/2009, 3/14/2009, 3/21/2009, 3/26/2009, 10/11/2009, 10/14/2009, 10/17/2009, 4/23/2010, 3/9/2013 to cite a few.

For Les Brers in A Minor check out 3/23/2009. For Whipping Post, there's so many and it got delivered pretty flawlessly on At Filmore East to be sure, but 10/27/14 is ferocious - and there's lots more from over the 13 years of the final lineup that are noteworthy, but I've gone on more than long enough probably.

Anyway, I know i'm more likely in the minority than not, most here are going to prefer the original lineup likely and that's obviously a great choice - they were the originators and set an unreal standard for later incarnations to try and live up to. For me, I find things to love about all the incarnations, but it's the best of the final lineup I gravitate to most often. If anyone actually read all this, I feel like I should send you a few dollars for your time or something - but it was nice to get into a deeper dive discussion of the ABB again - I miss having them out there on the road creating new performances to talk about.

[Edited on 6/16/2018 by slothrop8]

[Edited on 6/16/2018 by slothrop8]


blackey - 6/17/2018 at 12:24 AM

Soltrop8. I read all of what you wrote. I respect your thoughts. And it's clear to me, or my guess, you are a huge Derek Trucks fan. I like Derek a lot too.

I respect what you say because you latched on to the last line up and especially Derek like I did to the original line up in 1970. I really didn't have a favorite player. It was the entire band that blew me away and grabbed me so strongly. How all 6 sounded together. Those six guys all sounded different. Duane and Dickey had different styles. Butch didn't play drums like Jaimoe and Oakley was a very different bass player. I'd never heard a bass player play like that. Sometimes live he would harmonize with Duane and Dickey when they were harmonize. Then there was Gregg and we know now his bag and songs were more what he did with his solo bands but his piece of the puzzle fit together with the other five perfectly. The way the sounded together created the sound called the Allman Brothers and it was a new sound.

Those six guys when they played together originated a sound that was unique and unlike any band before. And the original material they worked up ( and the first year of the Chuck/Lamar band with Jessica, Southbound, Ramblin' Man, Wasted Words etc, as I noticed you agreed, was the song writing peak for the band. The songs written then form the top 10 best and classic songs that definitely the ABB.

The original band, when you take it all together, is the high water mark and cornerstone of what we know as the Allman Brothers.

I like to think the reason we had additional line ups is because Duane and Berry died. It could be some if the original six would have quit by 1980 or the band broke up by then but I doubt it. Not while Duane was alive. He was their guru. They all were in awe of him and feed off his energy. And Jaimoe said recently...that was the end of that. The energy and vibe of the band changed when Duane died and it was never the same. Later line ups, some better than others, tried to keep that original vibe going but it was never exactly the same.

The last line up did bring stability and top notch musicianship to the band that kept it going for 13 years, the longest version of the band, after the termoil and bad energy and discord that began swirling in 1995 that caused the exit of Warren and Woody in 1997, the exit of Jack in 99 and Dickey's ouster in 2000. I don't know if Gregg really meant it but he said about 2003 that if they didn't have Derek and if Warren hadn't come back, he was ready to hang it up as far as the Brothers were concerned after the beacon 2001 run. But Warren agreed to rejoin and the band had a lot of good years. For an old fan like me, I missed Dickey and his sound which Warren said was a hugh part of the bands sound even after he wasn't there.

But with all due respect to you and the last line up, the original lineup was the pure Allman Brothers. It has to be. Those original six and the original material from 1969-1973 is what made the band what it was and is it's cornerstone and design.

Now I respect the last line up and acknowledge Derek as one of the best guitarists out there. But he will tell you that his biggest early influence was Duane Allman. When I listen to Duane's slide playing on Fillmore East or Dickey's solos on Liz Reed on Fillmore or One Way Out on Eat a Peach, I just don't believe Derek and Warren ever topped it. I think the problem may be I got hooked on the band with the original lineup and you the last lineup and as Jaimoe said, the energy and vibe was gone and was over when Duane and Berry died. So I'm coming from a different experience and era if you will. Other line ups were real good, some better than others, but what was happening with the original band ended when Duane split. I agree with Jaimoe. When I want to introduce someone to the real deal Allman Brothers, I put on the Fillmore and Eat a Peach album. But if there are people who were not into the band then and it's the last lineup that really knocked you out then fine. There is no need to agree about it I guess. It's like a man telling someone vanilla is best when he likes chocolate ice cream better. Carry on. But I will never understand how anybody can think a later lineup tops the original band


blackey - 6/17/2018 at 12:36 AM

I wish I knew how to turn this damn spell check off on this phone. I go back and change the words it changed back to what I wrote and when I click on post, some of them return to what the spell check thinks I'm saying and it makes some of my sentences impossible to read. Had to retype 5 words on this one. This think just flat sucks. I'm 71 and can't adapt to this either damn it.


DeadMallard - 6/18/2018 at 02:22 AM

Enjoyed reading your take Slothrop8


DeadMallard - 6/18/2018 at 02:24 AM

quote:
I wish I knew how to turn this damn spell check off on this phone. I go back and change the words it changed back to what I wrote and when I click on post, some of them return to what the spell check thinks I'm saying and it makes some of my sentences impossible to read. Had to retype 5 words on this one. This think just flat sucks. I'm 71 and can't adapt to this either damn it.


LOL

You have a 15 years on me but I bet I'm worse than you when it comes to adjusting. I have a real love-hate relationship with technology.


CanadianMule - 6/18/2018 at 12:59 PM

There is no better or best - only different.

For instance, people will make claims that someone is "the best" such as made above about Derek. Based on nothing more that opinion and preference and not any type of actual fact. My buddy graduated with a Masters in Music and can play classical/fingerstyle that Derek will NEVER be able to play if he lives until 200 years old. Derek can also play slide better than my buddy EVER will.

Who is better? From a pure music theory knowledge, I guarantee that Derek would tell you my buddy - hands down. Why? Because he knows his limitations and there are many guitarists who have skills that he never will.

No one is better or worse - just different. It is how it makes you feel.

You can bring up a recording like Liz Reed from the Fillmore and state that it is better than any version by any other era. Well before comparing it to other eras, how about comparing it to the original lineups other versions? Did they play it as well the night before or after? Did they ever play it that well again? If not then does that mean that the Original 6 were better than themselves? Should they have quit after doing that version as it could never be topped.


What makes that version better? The fact that we have heard it millions of times. If they had released a different version then that would have become the Holy Grail of Liz Reeds.

Not every night is golden by any lineup and they all hit huge peaks. Which era hit what peaks on what songs? Some may like another version of Liz Reed from a different night. Same band but different levels. Which version is better? There is no better only different.


Stephen - 6/18/2018 at 02:28 PM

agree w/above post, overall
hear blackey too -- no matter who came along afterward, the original band was its own exempt-from-comparison magic & none that followed could've, & weren't expected to, live up to what it did

there are basically 18 mos worth of DA/BO shows (Jan. 1970-Oct 1971), while there blessedly are years of shows w/Warren & Derek -- they're all very different & the 1997-2000 period w/Dickey, Jack & Derek, I listen to the most nowadays -- also that 2005 show w/Jack & Derek in London Ont you sent James -- other one offs like Jimmy's sit in in Stowe Vt., the Jack/Warren show 1993 & those --

The Allmans always loved the stage -- Berry Oakley, Dickey Betts, Butch Trucks, Jai Johanny Johansen, Gregg Allman . . Duane Allman

[Edited on 6/18/2018 by Stephen]


stormyrider - 6/18/2018 at 02:44 PM

agree
If I had only 1 release to listen to, it would be AFE hands down.
The original 6 originated it, etc.

Had my phone on shuffle this AM at the gym, heard Spanish Key from the UP run. Outrageous.
I have no doubt that Duane and co could have done just as good a job with it but they never had the oppurtinity.

give me all of it!!!!


dzobo - 6/18/2018 at 04:45 PM

I have always wondered what it is like for fans of the band who first experienced them in one of their later lineups. If that is your first exposure to the the band's true musical excellence, if it is what grabs your musical soul, it is going to become the bar against which you judge all the rest. And as slothrop8 indicates, he has listened thoroughly to all the configurations and the entire catalogue. If the rest didn't have the same impact then what other conclusion can he reach from his own extensive listening experience?

We are all fortunate to have available such a legacy of incredible performances by so many gifted musicians and composers. What matters is what hits you deepest in the gut and at what high point you might have been first exposed to the band's greatness. I was on the train from the start, listening in my late teens and early twenties. The era then passed and even for a time I lost interest in the band. Then more great players were added, the band members became more sane, the catalogue broadened, and as far I was concerned there was a renaissance with the band reaching extraordinary musical heights. It was more than I ever could have expected, but if I have to make a call regarding the best unit nothing still moves me like the original 6. I can't help it, they are the bedrock of my musical soul. For me, all the rest is a glorious and well-appreciated footnote.


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